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Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

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Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#201

Post by pseudalopex »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #180
pseudalopex wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So he should pull his music and tell no one why?

Not if I understand the chronology correctly. If I understand correctly (and I may not), Young gave his "me or Rogan" statement to Spotify (or maybe indirectly, simply making a public pronouncement). Spotify didn't pull Rogan's content, so a couple of days later, then Young pulled his content off of Spotify. As I said, my understanding. And I haven't gone groveling through the back news items to prove it. Just my rec…

Monday Young wrote a letter to his management and posted it on his blog briefly. It was what we quoted. Wednesday Spotify confirmed his music was being removed.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#202

Post by dazilcher »

zapataband1 wrote: post #116
throwawaysea wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within their legal rights? Sure. But they are advocating for others to be silenced in the same breath, not just silently pulling their content. In other words, they are using power (financial power, celebrity influence) to silence others. That is incompatible with the ideas underlying a classically liberal free society.

Sorry Neil Young isn't the all powerful boogeyman that you think he is. He isn't censoring joe rogan because he doesn't have that power.

> Neil Young [...] joe rogan

Interesting capitalization choice. Intentional?

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#203

Post by kennywinker »

Blackstrat wrote: post #88
guerrilla wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently both are childhood polio survivors.

Perhaps but there is no parallel between the polio and the COVID vaccine. The former reduced the incidence of polio by more than 99% while the latter, well it does not.

No parallel because one is a bit less effective than the other? That’s a weird take

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#204

Post by kennywinker »

andy17231 wrote: post #192

I wonder if Rogan propagates vaccine misinformation, who prevents government healthcare officials to come to the show and tell his multimillion audience what exactly is wrong?

I suppose this is rhetorical, but to answer anyway - joe rogan prevents that. He’s in charge of who he has on as guests.

But even if he did, I suspect his ideology is such that scientific knowledge is de-valued over anti-establishment takes, and so nobody would listen to that healthcare expert. Because it’s not like his listeners haven’t heard that vaccines are effective - they just believe him as a source more than they believe any expert

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#205

Post by edanm »

mulmen wrote: post #39
gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

Young and Mitchell pulling their music is literally freedom of speech (free expression). Neil Young can do whatever he wants with his content (speech), just like Rogan. This is competition in the free marketplace of ideas. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on these actions and you're free to support Spotify or Young or Mitchell or any combination of the three. But there is no "freedom of speech" side here.

> But there is no "freedom of speech" side here.

I believe you're arguing semantics here.

When people say "freedom of speech", they're referencing (sometimes unknowingly) hundreds of years of discussion in philosophy, politics, etc. A big part of that debate is whether censorship of so-called "bad" ideas is a good thing or a bad thing for "the public".

One side here is trying to pressure, commercially and via public opinion, a big platform. They're trying to pressure this platform to not publish certain information because it is "bad". Of course they have a right to do so! But I think it should be fairly clear that they are the side that is "against" freedom of speech, because they are literally against Spotify publishing certain information.

What's more, this isn't happening without context. This is happening in a world in which there is a lively debate happening around whether platforms should be liable for content that they allow to be published, in a world in which increasingly people are hesitant to associate with other people for voicing opinions they don't like.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#206

Post by sorry_outta_gas »

ch4s3 wrote: post #145
sorry_outta_gas wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH I can't blame people for being weary of GMO in general after the decades of pumping people full or garbage hormones and whatever else it's a trust issue not a "science" one

GMO crops are exactly not "garbage hormones", and people consume them all of the time without complaint. I don't see anyone picketing the yogurt cases in their local super markets. Lot's of hormones survive intact through digestion and can enter the blood stream, but your body doesn't absorb the genetic material of food[1]. DNA is fragile and it's really hard to get foreign DNA into a cell, much less the nucleus. Our…

you misunderstand

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#207

Post by porcoda »

manquer wrote: post #159
porcoda wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use iTunes Match for making stuff available in the cloud (eg, so i can access it all from my phone), and locally store it all on a NAS. Pretty easy.

This looks a good fit for people with Apple devices . Sadly no clients for android. I have a mix of Linux , OSX Android and iOS, I won't be able to use in half of them! but given podcasts and other itunes features i suppose this best out of the box solution out there.

True. When I’m at home, the NAS serves up the music to my Linux systems. Unfortunately, not so useful when I’m on the road - in that case you’re right, I’m stuck with the apple devices. I would love for something like iTunes Match that worked as smoothly for non apple devices. That is probably the one apple service that keeps me locked into their ecosystem, and that bugs me.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#208

Post by sixstringninja »

kennywinker wrote: post #204
andy17231 wrote: post #192

I wonder if Rogan propagates vaccine misinformation, who prevents government healthcare officials to come to the show and tell his multimillion audience what exactly is wrong?

I suppose this is rhetorical, but to answer anyway - joe rogan prevents that. He’s in charge of who he has on as guests. But even if he did, I suspect his ideology is such that scientific knowledge is de-valued over anti-establishment takes, and so nobody would listen to that healthcare expert. Because it’s not like his listeners haven’t heard that vaccines are effective - they just believe him as a source more than…

He has Sanjay Gupta on, a well known doctor that supports vaccination. Even Gupta couldn’t make a firm argument that everyone must get vaxxed, even with the fact checking in real time

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#209

Post by kennywinker »

sixstringninja wrote: post #208
kennywinker wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose this is rhetorical, but to answer anyway - joe rogan prevents that. He’s in charge of who he has on as guests. But even if he did, I suspect his ideology is such that scientific knowledge is de-valued over anti-establishment takes, and so nobody would listen to that healthcare expert. Because it’s not like his listeners haven’t heard that vaccines are effective - they just believe him as a source more than…

He has Sanjay Gupta on, a well known doctor that supports vaccination. Even Gupta couldn’t make a firm argument that everyone must get vaxxed, even with the fact checking in real time

Did you just move the goalpost? All you need to make a firm argument for is that “getting vaxxed is safe, protects you, and protects others” not “everyone must get vaxxed” - nobody can make that argument - there are too many people unable to get the vaccine for valid medical reasons.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#210

Post by akvadrako »

throwawaysea wrote: post #68
woodruffw wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding of the GMO debate is that there are two kinds of GMO development: there's GMO for the purposes of making crops themselves hardier, more nutritious, etc., and then there's GMO for the purposes of making crops more resistant to novel pesticides, herbicides, etc. The agricultural industry likes to conflate the two, since the latter is much harder to defend. I have no idea what Neil Young actually believ…

There are also other pro science reasons to be against GMO crops. A couple example. GMO based industrial farms grow monocultures that ultimately reduce the variety of foods people traditionally grew and ate, leading to less varied diets and loss of culture. GMO crops also have yields that are unsustainably high, leading to disruption of water cycles (see Ogalalla aquifer depletion).

If GMO opponents stuck with the slogan "the yields are too high" they would be a lot more respectable. At least it's an honest position to hold.
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