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Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

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Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#202
post #174

This is an observation that goes back to at least Cicero.[1] Cicero on the primary goal of oratory: "As, therefore, the two principal qualities required in an Orator, are to be neat and clear in stating the nature of his subject, and warm and forcible in moving the passions; and as he who fires and inflames his audience, will always effect more than he who can barely inform and amuse them..." Cicero describes the pro…

I bet this objectively can't be helped. Nuance requires representing uncertainty and is higher complexity from accounting for multiple special cases. Placing more cognitive load and attentional demands on receiver. Human communication is lossy and decoding can be non-trivial inference. Given that everyone comes with differing priors, the more finer grained and complex details are required in reconstructing message in…

You made quite a nuanced and elaborate point.

I guess it scales on text with a specific crowd (HN).

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#204

This is an observation that goes back to at least Cicero.[1] Cicero on the primary goal of oratory: "As, therefore, the two principal qualities required in an Orator, are to be neat and clear in stating the nature of his subject, and warm and forcible in moving the passions; and as he who fires and inflames his audience, will always effect more than he who can barely inform and amuse them..." Cicero describes the pro…

That's an interesting quotation, but it doesn't sound like the problem with Curio's was too much nuance. If anything, very plain (albeit clear) speech has a lack of nuance.

That whole paragraph is almost exclusively about Calvus; Curio is only mentioned once, in passing.

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#205
post #174

This is an observation that goes back to at least Cicero.[1] Cicero on the primary goal of oratory: "As, therefore, the two principal qualities required in an Orator, are to be neat and clear in stating the nature of his subject, and warm and forcible in moving the passions; and as he who fires and inflames his audience, will always effect more than he who can barely inform and amuse them..." Cicero describes the pro…

I bet this objectively can't be helped. Nuance requires representing uncertainty and is higher complexity from accounting for multiple special cases. Placing more cognitive load and attentional demands on receiver. Human communication is lossy and decoding can be non-trivial inference. Given that everyone comes with differing priors, the more finer grained and complex details are required in reconstructing message in…

I'm genuinely appreciating the nuance and complexity in your reply. Thank you!

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#206
post #174

This is an observation that goes back to at least Cicero.[1] Cicero on the primary goal of oratory: "As, therefore, the two principal qualities required in an Orator, are to be neat and clear in stating the nature of his subject, and warm and forcible in moving the passions; and as he who fires and inflames his audience, will always effect more than he who can barely inform and amuse them..." Cicero describes the pro…

I bet this objectively can't be helped. Nuance requires representing uncertainty and is higher complexity from accounting for multiple special cases. Placing more cognitive load and attentional demands on receiver. Human communication is lossy and decoding can be non-trivial inference. Given that everyone comes with differing priors, the more finer grained and complex details are required in reconstructing message in…

I bet this objectively can't be helped.

Actually it can be helped when everybody agrees that some information must be known by everybody. Communication campaigns, making it a subject in schools...

So the problem uses to be that there are opposing sides trying to beat each other. OK, that's obvious, isn't it? But come to think of it, is society so divided that most people's interests conflicts with somebody else's?

I understand that there are diverse interests dividing countries or continents, but often differences inside the same country seem to be artificially amplified and fuelled.

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#207
post #206
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet this objectively can't be helped. Nuance requires representing uncertainty and is higher complexity from accounting for multiple special cases. Placing more cognitive load and attentional demands on receiver. Human communication is lossy and decoding can be non-trivial inference. Given that everyone comes with differing priors, the more finer grained and complex details are required in reconstructing message in…

I bet this objectively can't be helped. Actually it can be helped when everybody agrees that some information must be known by everybody. Communication campaigns, making it a subject in schools... So the problem uses to be that there are opposing sides trying to beat each other. OK, that's obvious, isn't it? But come to think of it, is society so divided that most people's interests conflicts with somebody else's? I…

"Make your idea a required chapter of study for a week in every school" isn't relly actionable advice...

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “I sent an email and I’m important therefore everyone got the message” I see a similar flaw in programmers. "I said it once, and therefore everyone has it memorized", as if people are computers who store every utterance in a file system.

I met someone who did that all the time. Turns out it was a learned behavior from having gotten pushed aside for coming across as too nit-picky one too many times. They turned in to the kind of person that would let other people make mistakes and just watch - and believe it or not, it worked for them! In their environment, that was a bad lesson well-learned.

There is a distinction between "I said it once, and I'm not obligated to say it again", and "I said it once, and therefore I can assume that everyone knows it". The difference is in whether you need everyone to know it (accountable for the result), or only need to CYA (accountable for your job).

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#209
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I met someone who did that all the time. Turns out it was a learned behavior from having gotten pushed aside for coming across as too nit-picky one too many times. They turned in to the kind of person that would let other people make mistakes and just watch - and believe it or not, it worked for them! In their environment, that was a bad lesson well-learned.

There is some merit to that approach though. For example, I moved IT support requests from a messaging system to an actual ticketing system. The number of requests actually dropped because if they aren't getting help instantly they'll actually try something rather than just giving up immediately and calling IT. Many many issues just went away because if you have to wait a bit all the braindead "click the button" or "…

That and a mix of people tolerating and working around broken systems because the bureaucracy wasn't worth it.

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#210
post #207
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet this objectively can't be helped. Actually it can be helped when everybody agrees that some information must be known by everybody. Communication campaigns, making it a subject in schools... So the problem uses to be that there are opposing sides trying to beat each other. OK, that's obvious, isn't it? But come to think of it, is society so divided that most people's interests conflicts with somebody else's? I…

"Make your idea a required chapter of study for a week in every school" isn't relly actionable advice...

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