Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google rewrites many page titles

zyppy.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 273 posts

Re: Google rewrites many page titles

#201

Post by greenyoda »

gregw134 wrote: post #192
sjtindell wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the ads. The way Brin and Page phrased it in their 1998 paper, they considered ad-oriented search engines to be lower quality. They were going to be more academic. They thought that there was lots of user data to mine in search…for academic purposes. Then innovation #2 at the actual startup was the ad auctions and that was the beginning of the end, all the way back at the beginning. I’ve recently read a lot abou…

The idea that ads affect Google's search ranking just isn't true. There are purposeful barriers between ads and search at Google to prevent this, such that the ads team can't even file bugs with search.

> the ads team can't even file bugs with search

I don't think it would happen at the low level of engineers filing bugs. It happens at the highest levels of management, where the main concern is corporate profits.

Even if there's no explicit cooperation or algorithmic link between the ads and search divisions, everyone on the search management team knows that search is a huge, expensive operation that makes no money on its own. Advertising is what pays for their salaries, bonuses, operating expenses, etc., and you can bet that they make their executive decisions accordingly.

Re: Google rewrites many page titles

#202

Post by dorgo »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #171
travisgriggs wrote: post #107

I totally get this. Back in the day when I was a kid, we went to the local library and read about the world. When the librarians weren’t serving me by “checking out books” to me, they were busily putting new and improved titles on the books in receiving. /s Seriously. Google is starting to feel less like the librarian of the net (we index the world) and more like the Truman show: we craft your reality.

Yes and no. Anecdotally, most of the SEOs and ppl who do SEO "part time" (e.g., ecomm store owner) still don't understand the foundation of modern SEO. 1. Google doesn't care about the sites. The sites aren't Google's customer. 2. More importantly, the person doing the search is the customer. Unfortunately, most sites believe SEO is about them. They can improve how they present themselves but the "transaction" is not…

1. Most SEOs don't care about what Google cares about. The sites are their customers.

2. SEO is about the sites and Google and other sources are just that: means to an end.

It's all a matter of perspective.

Re: Google rewrites many page titles

#204

Post by [deleted] »

travisgriggs wrote: post #107

I totally get this. Back in the day when I was a kid, we went to the local library and read about the world. When the librarians weren’t serving me by “checking out books” to me, they were busily putting new and improved titles on the books in receiving. /s Seriously. Google is starting to feel less like the librarian of the net (we index the world) and more like the Truman show: we craft your reality.

[deleted]

Re: Google rewrites many page titles

#205

Post by [deleted] »

jedwhite wrote: post #196

Advertising corrupts. Ad-tech corrupts absolutely. The reason is the cumulative impact of two things: 1. Algorithmic optimization of results for ad click-through rates, and 2. The scarcity of space for organic results on results pages for queries with commercial intent (because of the large amount of space given to ads). The high value of the clicks on those pages (sometimes $100+) drives marketers to focus dispropor…

[deleted]

Re: Google rewrites many page titles

#206

Post by titanomachy »

stickfigure wrote: post #126
pavon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is the worst reason for them to rewrite titles. If they left the title as-is, then I would be able to see in the search results that it was a spammy site and ignore it. Instead Google is helping to launder their SEO and present it as a more legitimate site. If Google thinks a site is gaming their algorithms they should de-prioritize it, not rewrite it.

I think you've got this wrong - they should heavily editorialize the titles. Honest titles of search results: * Five pages of flowery text and images before two lines of instruction on how to boil rice * A bunch of tantalizing pictures of exactly what you're looking for but zero further information about it * Product reviews machine-generated from public review sources with affiliate links. Top-rated product has the…

Ah, rice. The quintessential Asian grain, now consumed by billions around the world. When I was a child, my mixed-race family used to eat rice every day! Even today, the subtle aroma of rice wafting up from the kitchen brings a sense of nostalgia. It's a sure sign that dinner is approaching, my favorite meal of the day...

[5 pages later]

1. Put rice and water in rice cooker

2. Press "start"

Re: Google rewrites many page titles

#207

Post by [deleted] »

stickfigure wrote: post #126
pavon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is the worst reason for them to rewrite titles. If they left the title as-is, then I would be able to see in the search results that it was a spammy site and ignore it. Instead Google is helping to launder their SEO and present it as a more legitimate site. If Google thinks a site is gaming their algorithms they should de-prioritize it, not rewrite it.

I think you've got this wrong - they should heavily editorialize the titles. Honest titles of search results: * Five pages of flowery text and images before two lines of instruction on how to boil rice * A bunch of tantalizing pictures of exactly what you're looking for but zero further information about it * Product reviews machine-generated from public review sources with affiliate links. Top-rated product has the…

[deleted]

Re: Google rewrites many page titles

#208

Post by hutzlibu »

hungryforcodes wrote: post #163
sjtindell wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the ads. The way Brin and Page phrased it in their 1998 paper, they considered ad-oriented search engines to be lower quality. They were going to be more academic. They thought that there was lots of user data to mine in search…for academic purposes. Then innovation #2 at the actual startup was the ad auctions and that was the beginning of the end, all the way back at the beginning. I’ve recently read a lot abou…

Hedge funds are totally over. What are you talking about? https://www.investopedia.com/managing-wealth/hedge-fund-over...

So you are talking about a different source, than the one you linked?

Because this is the summary of the article.

"Is the hedge fund over? It's difficult to say."

Re: Google rewrites many page titles

#209

Post by greiskul »

falcolas wrote: post #93
xg15 wrote: post #29

> Many site owners find that the titles they carefully craft almost all get rewritten. Yeah, I'm with Google on this one. I don't see many reasons why a site owner would spend extraordinary amounts of time to "carefully craft" page titles other than SEO and optimizing for clickbaitness. As a user, I'm fine with Google counteracting this.

If this were being done by a person, I might agree with you. But it's not. It's being done by an algorithm which was carefully crafted to improve someone's chance for getting a promotion. It won't be maintained long term, yet it will continue to punish articles based on wholly arbitrary, biased, and opaque logic.

Google search is one area of Google in which this big company problem actually doesn't happen that much. Changes in the algorithm are never implemented by fiat, Google employs raters, and performs blind experiments to test if a change to search actually improves user satisfaction before rolling it out to everyone. So at least they must have some data that it increases user satisfaction, both with the metrics of the signal they measure, and with subjective raters satisfaction.

Re: Google rewrites many page titles

#210

Post by chiefalchemist »

dorgo wrote: post #202
chiefalchemist wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. Anecdotally, most of the SEOs and ppl who do SEO "part time" (e.g., ecomm store owner) still don't understand the foundation of modern SEO. 1. Google doesn't care about the sites. The sites aren't Google's customer. 2. More importantly, the person doing the search is the customer. Unfortunately, most sites believe SEO is about them. They can improve how they present themselves but the "transaction" is not…

1. Most SEOs don't care about what Google cares about. The sites are their customers. 2. SEO is about the sites and Google and other sources are just that: means to an end. It's all a matter of perspective.

No actually it's not. You're (gravely) mistaken.

The customer is the person doing the search. The sites aren't viewing the ads. The sites aren't clicking on the ads. *That* is Google's #1 source of revenue. Full stop.

And thus, as originally stated and supported, too many practicers of SEO, with that wrong lens, continue to misunderstand Google.

Put another way, Google doesn't change the title for the benefit of the sites. There's simply no biz model / source of revenue to support that idea. None.

Post reply on HN