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Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

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Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#201

Post by kragen »

qpiox wrote: post #200
kragen wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the ACM should support young and female researchers by making all their papers open access, publicly endorsing Sci-hub, and committing to send Sci-hub some money every month. That would have a much bigger impact than scholarships and workshops.

ACM members can offer their papers open-access legally and for free, helped by the ACM. ACM has an authorizer service that allows you as an author, to publish special links on your personal website, that will offer all visitors of your personal web-site free downloads of your papers. Those who are interested in your paper don't need an account, they just need to click on the special links published on your website an…

A lot of the relevant authors are already dead, and many more of them will be in the next ten years, so this is not good enough. It may reduce ACM's conflict with authors but it doesn't particularly help a researcher who's trying to track down a result someone published in CACM 40 years ago.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#202

Post by kragen »

ta988 wrote: post #188
kragen wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thinking that if Nature didn't pay the reviewers then the quality of the reviewing probably is not a result of money flowing into Nature, whether from the authors or from the readers?

You have some incentives to review. In the US they are a factor to get visas and green cards. They are used for getting tenure in some places. It is also a way to get in the "club" because now the editor that revuews grants nows your name...

I didn't mean to say that no incentives exist. I meant to say that those incentives wouldn't get stronger if authors or readers sent more money to Nature.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#203

Post by lstodd »

kragen wrote: post #129
mnd999 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean sure, making papers by underrepresented groups open access to increase their reach is actually a nice idea. Not sure what this has to do with sci-hub though, publishers are not going to fund sci-hub in the same way that the RIAA is not going to fund the pirate bay.

I don't mean they should make papers by underrepresented groups open access. I mean they should make the papers researchers need to read open access so that access to those papers isn't conditional on getting into a rich university, thus reducing the barriers to underrepresented groups and everyone else. By "their papers" I meant "the ACM's papers", not "the papers of young and female researchers". It's extremely unf…

Cannot agree more.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#204

Post by kristopolous »

netr0ute wrote: post #185
dash2 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a good analogy. Gigs and stand-up comedy have big audiences. Academic conferences don’t. Hiring a venue, paying for dinner, these things have cost. $600 isn’t unreasonable. By contrast $12,000 to publish a PDF on a website is criminal.

> Academic conferences don’t. Untrue, as shown by there being a conference in the first place.

Not only but there's plenty of 20 seat comedy nights and tiny drive bars where the performers gets paid.

This isn't a necessary artifact of a structural reality. It's a political choice that we can exercise the freedom to change.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#205

Post by dash2 »

netr0ute wrote: post #185
dash2 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a good analogy. Gigs and stand-up comedy have big audiences. Academic conferences don’t. Hiring a venue, paying for dinner, these things have cost. $600 isn’t unreasonable. By contrast $12,000 to publish a PDF on a website is criminal.

> Academic conferences don’t. Untrue, as shown by there being a conference in the first place.

Some conferences are big. Many are 20 people.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#206

Post by Jansen312 »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #51
torbTurret wrote: post #25

I’ll never forget getting my first paper accepted to a conference, only to learn that presenting will cost a mere $600. Work paid for it but still - what an absolute racket academia is.

Conferences cost money. You have to rent an appropriate venue, people tend to expect refreshments, etc. Why would it be free just because you are presenting there? So are most of the attendees.

Governments and sponsoring companies should pay for it. The rest of us a presenters and private inviduals should get it free. Knowledge should be free flow not at every steps being VAT-ed.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#207

Post by doetoe »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #51
torbTurret wrote: post #25

I’ll never forget getting my first paper accepted to a conference, only to learn that presenting will cost a mere $600. Work paid for it but still - what an absolute racket academia is.

Conferences cost money. You have to rent an appropriate venue, people tend to expect refreshments, etc. Why would it be free just because you are presenting there? So are most of the attendees.

I understood that the $600 is not the attendance fee but am additional charge for the privilege of presenting. The only reason they can get away with that is that people may need to have such things on their CV.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#208

Post by CiPHPerCoder »

kragen wrote: post #172
CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your style. We should start StateFairCon someday

Ooh, that's an excellent point! State fairs never cost US$600 per person, even when you include all the funnel cakes and donut-bun hamburger sandwiches bought from the concessionnaires. Typical admission prices in the US are maybe US$20 per day? But they have plenty of space, lots of conference rooms, bathroom facilities, handicapped accessibility, folding chairs, and so on. I bet you could hold an academic conferenc…

Academic conferences are usually "comfortable" environments with plenty of air conditioning. It might undermine the prestige a bit if we did that.

Or maybe it'd have a different charm than the norm.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#209

Post by kragen »

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #208
kragen wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ooh, that's an excellent point! State fairs never cost US$600 per person, even when you include all the funnel cakes and donut-bun hamburger sandwiches bought from the concessionnaires. Typical admission prices in the US are maybe US$20 per day? But they have plenty of space, lots of conference rooms, bathroom facilities, handicapped accessibility, folding chairs, and so on. I bet you could hold an academic conferenc…

Academic conferences are usually "comfortable" environments with plenty of air conditioning. It might undermine the prestige a bit if we did that. Or maybe it'd have a different charm than the norm.

It might be worth it if people could present their research without having to fork over US$600 or US$6000 to register for the conference. Air quality is worth a lot, though. I recall falling asleep from too many people crowded into a room at the physics department when they announced they'd discovered the top quark. Fairgrounds in lots of places do have air conditioning.

We held CodeCon in a nightclub --- during the day, when it would normally just be closed. This caused problems for aaronsw, because legally they couldn't let him in, and he didn't want to accept special treatment unavailable to other people his age, so he just didn't attend. Len got pretty mad at me when I took Aaron's side.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#210

Post by einpoklum »

cblconfederate wrote: post #197
einpoklum wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, less than 1000 USD per month? But that's a joke. In the Netherlands it's something like... 2800 EUR or 3000 EUR per month, so let's say 3000 - 3300 USD / month. I know the Netherlands PhD candidates have it relatively well (in relative, not absolute, terms), but I find it hard to believe people are expected to live off of 900 EUR / month. Is it really that bad these days?

Is that without social contribution? Minimum wage in greece is 730 usd. Many if not most phds earn less than $1000, if they are lucky to have stable funding. Hence brain drain

What I quoted is the gross salary according to the national collective employment agreement. A more recent version than the one I worked under is here:

https://www.europeanpolarboard.org/fileadmin/user_upload/cao...

but more specifically, see page 3 here:

https://www.maastrichtuniversity.nl/sites/default/files/en_2...

PhD candidates are on the type-10 salary scale, and the current scale by years of experience is here:

https://www.staff.universiteitleiden.nl/binaries/content/ass...

Naturally you pay a bit of income tax and health insurance, but on the other than you may be eligible to reduced-rent accommodation, and there's an extra month's pay once a year, and retirement benefits allowance, and some remuneration for Internet access costs etc. etc.

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