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Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

healthpolicy-watch.news

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Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#201

Post by nojokes »

mandmandam wrote: post #17
ummonk wrote: post #15

> the amount of antibodies returns to the level it was after the third vaccine, not more. It’s nice, but it’s not what we expect from a booster So basically it doesn’t confer any long term benefits - the only value from it would be if you want to keep your circulating antibodies high by perpetually boosting on a regular interval.

> perpetually boosting on a regular interval. ... Which is expressly advised against by the EMA, as linked in the article.

No, they advise against doing it too often i.e. doing 4th shot shortly after 3rd. That's all.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#202

Post by nojokes »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #66
Daishiman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how science works: when the facts become updated you update your decisions. Israel has been among the most science-driven governments in Covid policy. I'm not really sure why your "impression" should be mentioned given that you expressly state that you're not a specialist.

I think you are sadly wrong. Corona policy in the early days quickly became inextricably enmeshed in political rivalries, electioneering and knee- jerk reactions. When you say "science driven" i think you really meant "stricter regulations". It is a fatal error to conflate the two.

Are you talking about Israel? My friend from there told me that regardless of huge political differences, there has not been stupid rivalry because of covid.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#204

Post by nojokes »

rhema wrote: post #41

I was thinking about immunity generally, from a Shannon information theory perspective. It's impossible that the human body has an infinite ability to absorb immunity, because otherwise we could store an infinite amount of information. Therefore, there must be some kind of forgetting that happens. Likewise, the body can only learn so much from repeated exposure. Is anyone aware of any writing that explains immunity f…

It is a good perspective. I mean invoking Shannon part. There are definitely limitations to the antibody levels because otherwise we would just explode, right? But it makes sense to try to keep levels high in the event of pandemic. Our bodies unfortunately could not do it on their own so we have to beat them to do this.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#206

Post by nojokes »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #174
landemva wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With whose money? Is it possible to vaccinate all wild animals and every house cat?

The vaccinated still get and spread COVID and it is quite possible vaccinated individuals may actually contribute more than unvaxxed to more dangerous variants.

New variants need more mutation cycles. If vaccines slow down transmission (what they do) then they contribute to lower probability of emergence of new variants.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#207

Post by robbrown451 »

giantg2 wrote: post #55
robbrown451 wrote: post #42

I'm curious about the argument that giving too many boosters takes away the vaccine from "people in low and middle-income countries." Surely we have the capacity to make enough vaccines for everyone by now. It's just a matter of economics. Giving more boosters really shouldn't reduce supply, if there is money to make vaccines for everyone in the lower income countries, they will be made.

We don't have the capacity to vaccinate the whole world every 6 months.

I would imagine we'd have the capacity to make as many vaccines as someone will pay for.

Yes the factories have to be ramped up but that can be done quickly enough. If those low to middle income countries were offering big bucks for vaccines, the vaccine makers would have just put more resources on it.

The only reason it might make sense that we should stop boosting because it is taking them away from people who need them more, is if the vaccine makers made more than needed, or built more capacity than needed, simply because they didn't anticipate hesitancy.

It would be great if the US and other wealthy countries wanted to subsidize vaccines for poorer countries.... I mean, I'd vote for that. That just means we have less money, though, not fewer doses of vaccine.

(and just to be clear, I'm not saying we should overdo it if there is no point. I'm just saying the article and the position of the WHO is not logical)

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#208

Post by Tagbert »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #97
heavyset_go wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have my three shots, but I'm terrified now that the precident is set that a government can force me to take something that I might not want to. That precedent was already set by the Supreme Court in Jacobson v. Massachusetts in 1905.

It's well known by now that that case specifically addresses a state , not the federal government, and that it was a matter of a fine, not a forced injection.

How have you been fairing since your recent forced injection?

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#209

Post by aakresearch »

Daishiman wrote: post #192
aakresearch wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As somebody who was bullied in my childhood and early youth, I can say that there is no way one could go back to their bullies and collaborate with them politely. The only way to "get rid of the baggage" is to cut these people out of one's life, completely. No cooperation possible, unless a genuine profuse apology is given, and convincing demonstration of good intention is presented. The other way is to become a bull…

> As somebody who was bullied in my childhood and early youth, I can say that there is no way one could go back to their bullies and collaborate with them politely. The only way to "get rid of the baggage" is to cut these people out of one's life, completely. No cooperation possible, unless a genuine profuse apology is given, and convincing demonstration of good intention is presented. The other way is to become a bu…

> you don't deal with institutions and collectives the same was as you do an individual. It is a useless comparison.

I agree, in general. Until they forget that they are dealing with live individuals, not abstract bits in a statistical model. Once they overreach, I have no other mental model for them. Also, there seems to be a sniff of "I was only following superior orders" here. It was invalidated as an excuse in the court of law some time ago, and never was valid in the court of public opinion anyway. The institutions are run by individuals and it would be beneficial for them to remember that the hangman deals with individuals too. As Russian saying goes "They punch your face, not your passport" ("Бьют по роже а не по паспорту").

> Get some psychological help dude, this has nothing to do with science or medicine.

Sure thing, it hasn't. Except I did not need any help before all this. And now, before I get anywhere, I need to beg for exemptions. Not going to happen.

This is all to say that for some unbeknownst reason covid enthusiasts insist on destroying any possibility of peaceful existence post-panic. Some people will quietly depart from the world, but some will put up a fight. Why doesn't it come to mind?

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#210

Post by timr »

Daishiman wrote: post #195
timr wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, I can just dump a bunch of links to studies and details about how boosters are highly effective, even for young people. And I can find dozens more. This isn't baseball cards. The person with the most URLs doesn't win. You have to read the data and understand what it says. You clearly don't, because you're citing pop-science sources such as "The Harvard Gazette", and irrelevant papers about viral loads in br…

Given that a pediatric hospitalization is a hellish and expensive affair and early long COVID may have life-long effects, while a vaccine is cheap and trivially accessible, how is that still _not_ a winning strategy? _Just_ 8000 vaccinations to prevent a hospitalization? How could you even consider that to be bad? Are we in a surplus of hospital beds or guardians or am I the only person that lives in a metro area whe…

The ACIP slide deck goes into this. The vaccines also have risks, which you are ignoring, in favor of fixating on "early long Covid", which is a documented risk of exceptionally low magnitude.
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