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More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

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Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#201

Post by renewiltord »

endisneigh wrote: post #165
noasaservice wrote: post #125

1. School loans are not dismissable in bankruptcy. This is only shared with criminal monetary punishments. 2. Interest is charged, which is abhorrent at any rate. Especially the 8%. 3. PPP "loans" to the tune of almost 1t$.. which were forgiven. Just run a few sham job ads for software engineers at 10$/hr and NobOdy wAnTS tO wOrk! 4. University doesn't really provide job skills. They allude to, but then say they dont…

I love how the solution is always to do tech. What about the other things?

Well, the other things are likely not worth it. You can tell because they try to hide outcomes from prospective students. The things that will yield good outcome for an individual all lead with the outcome. The things that don't always lead with some sort of identity-nonsense: "You will be a well-rounded individual" but don't actually show the median example of this well-rounded individual post-degree.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#202

Post by nradov »

VampireWillow wrote: post #174
nradov wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The better alternative is to immediately return all students and staff to full in-person education with no mandates or restrictions. Yes that will incur some small but acceptable level of additional risk.

Your comment is the epitome of "some of you will die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make".

Real life is full of risks. I despise this modern culture of safetyism and fragility. We should teach our youth to be stoic and resilient in the face of danger.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#203

Post by Goronmon »

ejb999 wrote: post #133
_fat_santa wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thought it's not as glamorous as a 4 year college experience, I highly suggest going to a Community College for the first two years and then transferring to a state school. I did this and through I resented it at the time, I existed college with around $30k in student debt versus my friends that all has something in range of ($40k to $80k). IMO 30k in student debt is very manageable, currently have the thing paid dow…

>>IMO 30k in student debt is very manageable, currently have the thing paid down to like $12k and I like knowing I can reach into savings at any time and wipe out this debt if need be. Absolutely - $30K in debt is completely reasonable imo; if after 4 years in college you have not improved your job prospects enough to cover that payment, then you probably didn't work very hard, or didn't pick a marketable major. Most…

Most of these 'college debt is out of control' stories being pushed in the press, are usually focusing on outliers - i.e. people that borrowed $250K for multiple useless majors and now work at Starbucks because they chose badly. Public policy shouldn't be based on edge cases like this; not do we want to reward people for making bad decisions.

That's quite the story you've created for yourself. I'm sure it makes it easy to dismiss the issue out of hand.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#204

Post by panzagl »

The dean of students at my daughter's university (Montana State) has been pretty upfront about this mostly being demographics- Gen Z is smaller than the Millennials.

That being said, both of my daughter's had drilled into their heads how expensive college would be by their HS teachers and staff. We're continually telling them not to worry about it, it's our responsibility to pay, not theirs, don't feel bad for not going into STEM, etc. Doesn't help that we live out west where anti-intellectualism is the default and a degree is just seen as a piece of paper.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#205

Post by malfist »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #172
bagacrap wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loans are exactly why the colleges were able to continue jacking up the prices. As with homes, people will pay as much as institutions are willing to loan them. In both cases the currently low interest rates allow the loan principal to be much higher (given that folks calculate cost based on recurring payments). If you remove the student loan system then tuition would become cheaper. However that does unfairly im…

That completely shifts the blame to bureaucracies, and that isn't fair. Loans are where they are because students prefer newer dorms, amenities, programs, and research opportunities. Student competition leads to prestige, leads to demand from employers for graduates from a specific institution. It is a self-reinforcing dynamic. The fact student loads have special bankruptcy treatment is bad. But absent Sallie Mae (or…

It's a little rich to blame 18 year olds for college costs skyrocketing don't you think?

Of course students prefer newer dorms, amenities, programs and research opportunities. But asking someone who might have been getting $5/week allowance to figure out how much a newer dorm is worth when the prices are in the 10s of thousands is an impossible task. They don't know how much money is worth.

And then to tell them that they can't discharge it in bankrupcy because they knew what they were getting into is very much bullshit.

And I don't say all this because I have student loans. I was very lucky, I went to a state college with a full tuition scholarship. But I've seen a lot of my peers struggle with student loans because teenagers don't understand fiscal policy, and shouldn't be expected too.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#206

Post by netsec_burn »

awb wrote: post #147

I’ve been recruiting for US startups since 2008, probably recruited over 100 folks from engineers to C-level. I have never considered a candidate’s college or if they even attended one. The only thing I evaluated is what they accomplished in the last 1-2 years. That meant hiring some brilliant engineers straight out of high school. Most of these candidates were early stage hires for dozens of companies that went on t…

I can attest to universities not being useful for helping you get in to a career, besides resume writing. I attended one career fair sponsored by a university I attended. There were about 60 different booths, and two of them were tech companies. The first offered 40k/yr. They had already reached out to me prior to the career fair and I declined to move cities for a 40k/yr position, there were plenty of state jobs paying that. The second was Amazon. I asked if they had any SWE roles. They said there were only warehouse jobs.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#207

Post by lkxijlewlf »

astura wrote: post #102
Aperocky wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't state colleges relatively affordable (while mostly OK academically)?

I started college almost 20 years ago, so I don't know the current situation. Back then the state schools had acceptance rates of only 20%-30% because so many people wanted to go to state schools to save money. There wasn't nearly enough supply to meet demand. I never applied to any public school, but I was legitimately worried about not being accepted. I wouldn't depend on it. I'm really glad I went to a private col…

Florida used to (still does?) guarantee admission to state college if you have a 2 year (AA) degree.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#208

Post by thehappypm »

bart_spoon wrote: post #113
Der_Einzige wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WTF. My wife did the online OSU program and all we pay is in-state tuition (even if out of state!). She's an international student too! You will not be paying 30K a year for OSU e-campus. More like 10-15K a year or so.

Well they said they were told to budget 30K a year, half for school expenses, and half for living expenses, so it sounds like their experience isn't contradictory with yours.

Living expenses for online?

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#209

Post by merolish »

HWR_14 wrote: post #130
bagacrap wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loans are exactly why the colleges were able to continue jacking up the prices. As with homes, people will pay as much as institutions are willing to loan them. In both cases the currently low interest rates allow the loan principal to be much higher (given that folks calculate cost based on recurring payments). If you remove the student loan system then tuition would become cheaper. However that does unfairly im…

It's not just loans, it's COVID. If I were college-age and I were planning on going to college I would certainly do one of two things. I would postpone college until the COVID issues died down -or- I would use the fewer applicants to get into a more prestigious school banking on a better 3 year experience (out of 4) starting in the fall of 2022 and more impressive degree going forward. Either way, I can imagine admit…

I do applicant interviews for my alma mater (MIT). The number of students applying has skyrocketed, and it sounds like it's the same for peer schools.

https://thetech.com/2021/03/18/regular-admissions-2025

Tuition has doubled since I went there, but at least they can afford good financial aid for those who can get in.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#210

Post by cableshaft »

issa wrote: post #155
samarama wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are student loans really such an issue? 85% of graduates have less than $50,000 in student loans. Paid off over 20 years, that’s really not much. https://www.rclco.com/wp-content/uploads/advisory-student-de... Additionally, those that have much higher loans are usually medical students who make $200,000/year at the entry level.

If you are in the US and know people who are aged 30-50 and not software engineers, this is almost all that they talk about. Some people manage to pay them off, others (due to high interest) owe more than when they started. It is a huge problem.

Yep, I'm a software engineer and just about to pay them off (I slowed down because of the deferred loans, could have had it done in 2020).

Meanwhile my wife only makes an appreciable dent in hers whenever she gets a gift from family members, and she's still paying $900 a month to not do much more than tread water. She did get it paid down a bit more thanks to the past two years of deferrals, but she still owes a lot more than I ever borrowed (two years of my school were paid for by a scholarship).

It's been a steady drag on our income since we've been together. At least mine is just about to go away, mine was $400/month as well... that $1300/month is almost as much as our mortgage payment.

I have multiple friends that have just given up on ever paying off their student loan debt in their lifetime and only pay enough to keep it where it is (or slowly increasing even). You wonder why people aren't buying homes and having children, there it is. I guess the solution to overpopulation is just saddle everyone with a bunch of debt, then.

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