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Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

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Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#201

Post by judge2020 »

jjav wrote: post #183
judge2020 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a crime, since the advertising includes OTA as a feature and it’s not criminal to remove functionality from a previously-sold device.

> it’s not criminal to remove functionality from a previously-sold device I'm sure it's not criminal, given today's laws. Think about that statement though. It absolutely should, morally, be criminal to take away something that was sold as functioning. Imagine in the 80s that VCR manufacturers sent people to your home at night to open your VCR and cut some traces so it could play but no longer record. Would be an out…

I never said it was OK. The parent specifically wondered if some law prohibited this practice (which there isn't, given Google's legal team surely has all their bases covered).

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#202

Post by vel0city »

greatgib wrote: post #191
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, I'd have to do a TCO analysis; if they give you 40% off, and you just assume it'll die after X years but be fully supported for that time and then you upgrade to a faster unit with next-gen wifi or whatever, it could still work out to be a good deal. Like... not my cup of tea (TCO is even nicer when the unit's lifespan is indefinite), but it's a plausible tradeoff.

You TCO is negative in all cases. Because you had something that was working enough, otherwise you would have changed it. But now you need to spend money to change. Even if for a good price. Also you have to take into account that you pay but not have 2 working devices in the end (old and new). Just one. Sure, if the new one was providing significant value, there could have been an interest. Like if you network was s…

> currently 8/10 years old ac wifi routers

802.11ac was released in 2014, only 7 years ago. You wouldn't have a 10 year old AC router, and really probably wouldn't have an 8 year old AC router quite yet.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#203

Post by vel0city »

ineedasername wrote: post #92
admax88qqq wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure people said the same thing about 802.11ac when everyone was on n, or n when everyone was on g. Faster is always better. New 802.11ax also improves contention between devices.

I have ~7 year old bog standard wifi router that has more than enough speed to saturate my 200Mbs downlink. Up to 7 or 8 devices online at a time when all family members are home, and there's never a contention issue. I can hog the connection w/ a huge Steam download, and then when they kids start streaming netflix to the TV it's still all shared nicely with me getting a reduced speed as the stream kicks in, everythi…

I'd highly recommend looking at just getting a wired AP to put in the basement and have it ceiling mounted. It really depends on how your house was designed, but it could be relatively easy to drop a cable down from an above floor to the ceiling. You'll get much better performance having a wire carrying the signal than trying to do WiFi mesh setups, especially when you're trying to cover an area that already has terrible WiFi performance.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#204

Post by vel0city »

baskethead wrote: post #91
admax88qqq wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure people said the same thing about 802.11ac when everyone was on n, or n when everyone was on g. Faster is always better. New 802.11ax also improves contention between devices.

Faster is not always better. I upgraded to 10Gbps for my network and I barely use above 1Gbps, what I originally had. I upgraded my Wi-Fi to wifi6 and I can’t tell any difference at all, despite having around 40 wireless devices on my network. All our phones support it and I literally don’t notice anything. We may be getting to the point where more speed is not as important.

> I upgraded my Wi-Fi to wifi6 and I can’t tell any difference at all

How many WiFi 6 clients do you have though? If all (or even the large majority of) your clients are 802.11ac clients, you're not going to notice any real differences.

The biggest differences are going to be spectral efficiency especially when it comes to many devices chirping small packets. So think having lots of IoT things around the house while you're doing VoIP and gaming stuff. Things like streaming video won't really see an incredible difference most of the time. Streaming video usually has at least several second buffers and isn't actually constantly clogging the band, its brief blasts of several seconds worth of data at a time.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#205

Post by vel0city »

pydry wrote: post #192
prmoustache wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you want to cram 50 so called "smart" devices is the real question. Is your quality of life improved by having your lightbulbs and switch connected to the internet. Why do you need sensors at all? My home is completely analog, like I even have to operate my windows blinds manually. I have lived in a totally connected and electrified house and I didn't view any improvement in my quality of life. Only downsid…

My quality of life is improved by heating that can be turned on remotely (while im on my way home) or on a timer (before i wake up). Lightbulbs not so much.

You don't need to have it internet connected to have your thermostat on a timer. My home has responded to heat or cool the house based on when I wake up, when I leave, when I come home, and when I go to bed for well over a decade all without needing an internet connection to do so. My thermostat doesn't go dumb just because the internet went down or because it became unsupported and got bricked.

The only thing I wish it would do would have better multi-zone temperature and humidity sensing to know to turn on the circulation fan when the edges of the house get too hot/cold compared to where the thermostat is. Even then that doesn't require the internet, it could be done with cheap 433MHz temp/humidity probes running on button cell batteries for years.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#206

Post by pydry »

vel0city wrote: post #205
pydry wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My quality of life is improved by heating that can be turned on remotely (while im on my way home) or on a timer (before i wake up). Lightbulbs not so much.

You don't need to have it internet connected to have your thermostat on a timer. My home has responded to heat or cool the house based on when I wake up, when I leave, when I come home, and when I go to bed for well over a decade all without needing an internet connection to do so. My thermostat doesn't go dumb just because the internet went down or because it became unsupported and got bricked. The only thing I wish…

I do need internet if i want to tell my heating to turn on 1hr-30 mins before i come home though.

Or to respond to the weather (e.g. start warming the house earlier coz it's a particularly cold day).

If your life is very strictly regimented maybe it's less useful.

This doesnt mean I want a cloud connected thermostat. I want something that talks to homeassistant.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#207

Post by vel0city »

pydry wrote: post #206
vel0city wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to have it internet connected to have your thermostat on a timer. My home has responded to heat or cool the house based on when I wake up, when I leave, when I come home, and when I go to bed for well over a decade all without needing an internet connection to do so. My thermostat doesn't go dumb just because the internet went down or because it became unsupported and got bricked. The only thing I wish…

I do need internet if i want to tell my heating to turn on 1hr-30 mins before i come home though. Or to respond to the weather (e.g. start warming the house earlier coz it's a particularly cold day). If your life is very strictly regimented maybe it's less useful. This doesnt mean I want a cloud connected thermostat. I want something that talks to homeassistant.

I tell my thermostat my schedule once and how I want my house to be, and it makes sure to hit those temperatures when I want it to. I shouldn't have to "tell it" I'm coming home, it should just do it.

Respond to the weather? Its a thermostat. Even a decent bi-metallic strip thermostat will "respond to the weather". Its not like the thermostat needs to do anything different if its an especially cold day outside, it will keep the indoor environment as you programmed it. How do you think thermostats worked before the internet?

The only "respond to the weather" idea I'd like would be to account for especially humid days as sometimes the temperature is fine but its really humid in the house. But once again it doesn't need to reach out to an API to figure out the humidity outside at some airport 20mi away, it just needs a local humidity sensor.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#208

Post by pydry »

vel0city wrote: post #207
pydry wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do need internet if i want to tell my heating to turn on 1hr-30 mins before i come home though. Or to respond to the weather (e.g. start warming the house earlier coz it's a particularly cold day). If your life is very strictly regimented maybe it's less useful. This doesnt mean I want a cloud connected thermostat. I want something that talks to homeassistant.

I tell my thermostat my schedule once and how I want my house to be, and it makes sure to hit those temperatures when I want it to. I shouldn't have to "tell it" I'm coming home, it should just do it. Respond to the weather? Its a thermostat . Even a decent bi-metallic strip thermostat will "respond to the weather". Its not like the thermostat needs to do anything different if its an especially cold day outside, it w…

If I am not in the house or I am asleep it is a waste of energy to heat it.

I find it weird that you get indignant at the idea of a little more automation than a timer.

>How do you think thermostats worked before the internet?

Either wasting money heating an empty home when I went out or I came home to a cold house and then turned on the heating. I remember.

I also remember thermostats which didnt understand the concept of weekends, etc.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#209

Post by ocdtrekkie »

dmitrygr wrote: post #173
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of my Nexus Q: An extremely high quality, overspecced device, that Google deleted in order to replace the functionality with Chromecast, a drastically weaker, much poorer quality product. But hey, it sold better.

That story is not as simple as you make it sound... The team was "android at home" and the year was 2012. This was google's first effort at home automation, and besides $60 lightbulbs you could turn off wirelessly that nobody at the time needed, we had the Q. The main focus for Q was audio. Fancy, high quality audio. It had a very nice amp. It even had very fancy hardware to allow synchronized audio playback without…

Obviously that is an example of incredible corporate dysfunction. But perhaps you would know, because it always blew my mind: Is there any reason the Nexus Q couldn't have been adapted to at least... be a Chromecast? The Nexus Q's function in YouTube and such was directly replaced by the Chromecast function... and I presume processing power wasn't an issue...

It feels like if there wasn't an insurmountable incompatibility issue, the Nexus Q could've/should've been able to run alongside Chromecast as a high-end version... and probably still work today if a single "convert to Chromecast" sort of update had been developed for it.

I still have it somewhere... easily the nicest piece of hardware I ever owned, and disappointingly, the one that lasted the shortest time.

Re: Google to end support for OnHub routers in 2022

#210

Post by vel0city »

pydry wrote: post #208
vel0city wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tell my thermostat my schedule once and how I want my house to be, and it makes sure to hit those temperatures when I want it to. I shouldn't have to "tell it" I'm coming home, it should just do it. Respond to the weather? Its a thermostat . Even a decent bi-metallic strip thermostat will "respond to the weather". Its not like the thermostat needs to do anything different if its an especially cold day outside, it w…

If I am not in the house or I am asleep it is a waste of energy to heat it. I find it weird that you get indignant at the idea of a little more automation than a timer. >How do you think thermostats worked before the internet? Either wasting money heating an empty home when I went out or I came home to a cold house and then turned on the heating. I remember. I also remember thermostats which didnt understand the conc…

> If I am not in the house or I am asleep it is a waste of energy to heat it.

I agree, which is why I use a multi-stage programmable thermostat. Once again, it turns off when I leave, turns back on a bit before I get home, lets it warm/cool a bit while I sleep, and then starts back up around when I wake up.

> I find it weird that you get indignant at the idea of a little more automation than a timer.

If you're manually telling it you're on your way home that sounds like less automation to me. Personally I'd take the tiny bit of efficiency hit having it heat the house maybe an hour or two off from my regular schedule than having to micro-manage turning my thermostat on and off on a more expensive device that will probably be eventually bricked.

I'm just saying, the vast majority of the quality of life improvement from your internet connected thermostat could have been achieved with just a 7-day 4-stage programmable thermostat that has existed for 20 years. Its nice you're happy with your expensive device that's beholden to some cloud server, I hope it stays online for a few more years.

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