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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#201

Post by malwarebytess »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #124
vlunkr wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, if you hang out in certain parts of the internet, it feels like a revolution is coming, but it reality Bernie still can't win the primaries, so I don't think the numbers are actually there. But I also won't be surprised if the next generation of voters is more socialist-leaning.

The revolution will not come from the left. The "left" elites have forgotten the people, and the left in general is talking more about identity issues than class issues. The revolution will be more Trump than Bernie. Like in the early 1900, where more revolutions where fascist than communist.

I came to the same conclusion. However my thinking was more along the lines of examining where the most evocative, incisive, accurate, renderings of culture & critique were being created. I'll tell you, the revolution will not be televised. And it's not coming from America's liberals (and of course not from the Silent gen. type conservatives either.) but it is more often than not coming from the right. Thought not the right that is in power now...

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#202

Post by malwarebytess »

xg15 wrote: post #158
dnautics wrote: post #39

If it does, inflation has failed as a policy: https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/the-case-for-hi... "in the long run, it’s really, really hard to cut nominal wages. Yet when you have very low inflation, getting relative wages right would require that a significant number of workers take wage cuts. So having a somewhat higher inflation rate would lead to lower unemployment, not just temporarily, but on a sus…

Once again, I'd like to understand why "lower unemployment" is more important than people actually being able to make a living. What is all that employment for if people can't pay their bills from it?

Shifts the balance of power away from labor in favor of business. Puts a thumb on the scale. It is corruption.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#203

Post by onion2k »

JimBlackwood wrote: post #118
onion2k wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the other side, whenever a member of my team has come to me asking to match an offer I've always refused and wished them well in their new role. If someone is unhappy enough to start job hunting rather than talking to me then it's a clear sign that they'll leave soon regardless of any pay rise. Psychologically, every pay increase makes someone happy for a short time, and then they get used to it and they start t…

Look at it from this point of view; if your employer is so unhappy with you that, even when you’ve shown your skill, he’s unwilling to pay you a competitive amount then it’s clear you don’t really have a future at your current job. A new company is willing to risk it on you, while paying more than your current job where you have experience. No surprise they leave in a year anyway.

if your employer is so unhappy with you that, even when you’ve shown your skill, he’s unwilling to pay you a competitive amount then it’s clear you don’t really have a future at your current job

This is the crux of the problem - people assume that anyone going to their boss asking for a raise is underpaid. That isn't always true.

When someone goes and finds a new role on more money it's almost always at a higher level. People move upwards when they move on. Matching an offer usually means paying someone the salary for the higher level role to do the work of the lower level role.

If someone wants to move up a level to earn more I've always been happy to talk to them about that. That's not what we're talking about here though.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#204

Post by the-alt-one »

MrPatan wrote: post #180
the-alt-one wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I'm unionized and had a 13% pay raise. To be fair, they motivated that by saying that I should get up to speed with other engineer's raises instead of staying at a junior level (yes, I'm bragging).

What I'm reading here is the union kept your initial wages 13% below market

Nah, I was straight out of uni so taken on as a junior by the company and then given a raise as they didn't consider me junior after having me work there for 8 months or so. The union is probably involved in standard pay levels, but not much more than that.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#205

Post by yokto »

bjarneh wrote: post #184

Not sure how inflation is calculated globally; but where I live (Norway) we leave housing costs out of inflation. That always seemed very strange to me. Our main cost of living, (which has gone through the roof the last 25 years) is somehow left out of the calculation. My rent, or cost of buying a house - is much more important than the cost of a Snickers bar.

I don't know about Norway, but in France it is weighted at 7% of the inflation calculation, which is way below what people actually pay for housing. In theory, it is because housing is considered an investment, but in practice it doesn't seem to hold up and is critized by some economists. I also find it very strange.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#206

Post by ikrenji »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #148
aeternum wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely some of both. Many of the costs are going to the supply-chain bottlenecks, IE: meat packing plants, lumber mills, container ports, chip manufacturers. Demand is high and it's hard for new supply to be brought online so those in the right position benefit significantly. For example AMD and NVDA revenue up 50%+, income 100%+ Eventually these high margins will attract competitors and bring down the margins but it…

>For example AMD and NVDA revenue up 50%+, income 100%+ Eventually these high margins will attract competitors and bring down the margins For those examples that is false hope. You can't just spring up a new competitor in the GPU filed out of thin air and expect it to work; Nvidia and AMD duopolies are so far ahead into the game experience wise that no startup could ever catch up no matter how much money you throw at…

intel is literally getting into the GPU market 2022

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#207

Post by rrdharan »

onion2k wrote: post #67
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want a raise the best thing you can do is find a new job. Note that this doesn't always even involve taking it. Go get a job offer that pays better and bring it to your boss. If they want to match it, great. If they don't, bye.

From the other side, whenever a member of my team has come to me asking to match an offer I've always refused and wished them well in their new role. If someone is unhappy enough to start job hunting rather than talking to me then it's a clear sign that they'll leave soon regardless of any pay rise. Psychologically, every pay increase makes someone happy for a short time, and then they get used to it and they start t…

Sundar stayed and it worked out reasonably well for him and for Google:

https://allthingsd.com/20110108/twitter-courts-googles-sunda...

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#208

Post by randomsearch »

Most of this discussion seems to be off topic hot takes on conspiracy theories about inflation and big corp.

I am worried about a wage price spiral. But I’m not expecting it to commence yet. Common sense suggests most people are not going to look at inflation forecasts and say “well, I’d better ask for a preemptive wage rise”, rather people will notice price rises, adjust their budget, and when the rises become intolerable they will say “hang on, I really need a pay rise.” Most people are too busy to follow macroeconomics.

So I’m expecting wage bargaining and rises to become a central theme in 2022 once people really notice. Even at an annualised rate of 5%+ that takes time.

It’s very difficult to see how wage rises won’t be granted, which makes me wonder how politicians are imagining they’re going to prevent a spiral. This is exactly why we don’t print money and put it into retail accounts.

I’ve pointed it out before, but in the 80s in Britain Lawson and Thatcher spent years trying to end the spiral, and they really struggled despite throwing everything they could at it. Wage spirals are as much about politics and psychology as they are about economics.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#209

Post by futharkshill »

zipiridu wrote: post #127
silisili wrote: post #58

As someone who does OK, but lives in reality (not the bay area), I feel a revolution coming. I hope it's not a violent one, but who knows at this point. Hopefully it's just a politician with big policy changes. People feel completely disenfranchised. You keep hanging housing over their head but just out of reach like some baby toy, then inflation spikes everything else. What's the point of working even? I don't know…

Watch Ray Dalio's videos on the long term debt cycle and how the economy works in general. Another interesting topic is what is called the "fourth turning" which sort of says that major changes happen around once a human lifecycle. We are going to have some major economic changes in the next decade, but no one knows how that will look. I think it's 50/50 whether it's violent or not.

You are being overly dramatic. A hundred years ago, workers were treated so bad and had such bad living conditions it makes you sick just to hear about it. THAT lead to some violent revolutions in some countries, most of them young, undemocratic, or unstable. Some of them migrated 2,000 km from their home.

People have food, shelter, entertainment.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#210

Post by systemvoltage »

Just a few months ago you would be flagged on HN for mentioning inflation. Look up any threads on economy from March 2021 for example.

I want to know why. Why was the HN diaspora not allowing dissent with the mainstream narrative? Mentioning inflation here was so harshly ridiculed, I was surprised the massive U-turn from the tech community. I saw the entire media changing the tune. That means no one here is thinking from the bottom-up, it’s mostly servant to the mainstream media.

I’ve lost hope in people here. It used to be the wisdom of crowds. Now it’s the tyranny of the crowds.

I think I feel like leaving HN.

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