The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#201

Post by lobocinza » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

arthur_sav wrote: post #51

jbrun wrote: post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

We've lost the community aspect. Previously, communities were essential for survival but nowadays it's easier than ever to be independent. Work remote from your computer. Buy food, water, sex and get dopamine hits from social media. When you don't really need anyone, it's hard to be vulnerable and try to open up to new people. So here we are, we have everything at our fingertips and yet we're empty.

We are in the discontinuity between national states and burbclaves.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#202

Post by gonehome » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 6:10 PM UTC

formerly_proven wrote: post #195

gonehome wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only an issue because of constrained supply driving prices up. If there was more supply, prices would stabilize somewhere lower. Given enough supply that point would be somewhere one income could support. It's the constrained supply paired with high demand that drives prices up and requires multiple high incomes to compete (especially in places where this has been taken to the extremes because of NIMBYism and…

Regardless of market conditions, DINK still offers a huge economic advantage because, well it's in the name: two incomes, ~half the living expenses compared to a single. It's popular because it's meta.

Yeah, but it'll only drive prices up if supply is constrained.

Land is scarce so there will always be some constraints in highly desirable areas, but today we're way way below what the land can support because of bad policy.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#203

Post by vorpalhex » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 6:10 PM UTC

kelseyfrog wrote: post #199

vorpalhex wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a youth, I remember being strongly instilled that neither politics nor religion were appropriate topics for "polite conversation". Instead you generally talked hobbies, plans, family, etc. Conversations are a bit of a puzzle. You are trying to identify the overlap of two parties interests. Now I see a lot of people who start right out of the gate with politics and immediately become hostile when you disagree on so…

I remember the same. However, as I've gotten older and everything has become political, the non-political path has gotten smaller and smaller and has all but disappeared. Even more importantly, I've realized that it's not healthy to have an entire social diet composed of polite conversations. Emotional vulnerability and openness is a necessary ingredient for meaningful social engagement. An opening move into politics…

Polite conversations are for strangers, coworkers, and other people who have to deal with you in a service role.

To rephrase, please don't give your waitress or barber a rant on how candidate X is doing A and B.

You should have good friends who willingly engage in deep conversation with you, whether it's religion, sex, politics, etc. That is where your openness and vulnerability are - not with bots on twitter.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#204

Post by vorpalhex » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #196

vorpalhex wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you still can't, then you need to talk to a therapist. You probably have either never developed or allowed your social skills to decay and need help to get them back on track.

Or, maybe I just don't enjoy interacting with strangers very much? It seems pretty insulting to insinuate that just because someone isn't very social it means they are fundamentally flawed.

We are discussing people who are suffering from loneliness.

If you do not suffer from loneliness, this entire thread is not about you.

If you suffer from loneliness and are not socializing successfully, something has gone wrong, somewhere.

Even if you need to see a therapist, you are not fundamentally broken anymore than someone who is physically weak is fundamentally broken. You simply need help with your development.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#205

Post by bee_rider » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

readflaggedcomm wrote: post #200

bee_rider wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people actually think their country has a chance of upcoming civil war (or many other crises like ecological collapse), they should expand their in-person social network -- mutual aid is an important resiliency strategy.

Which is made all the more difficult when people react violently to your attempts to connect with them, because they perceive your political stance as a threat (usually through misunderstanding). No wonder we clam up and brace for war.

To be clear -- my comment is more about finding likeminded people who you can depend on if shit actually hits the fan. People who "react violently to your attempt to connect with them" are not great candidates for shit-hit-the-fan buddies.

Crossing the aisle is another commendable but unrelated thing.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#206

Post by mensetmanusman » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

retrac wrote: post #181

pjc50 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> go to a coffee shop, library.... Don't forget your mask. The pandemic is still on.

Not entirely sure why you're downvoted. I'm nearly deaf and I fully rely on lipreading. I've basically concluded I will have no social interactions in public until masks go away. I can't even make it through checkout sometimes without frustrating others. No one has the patience to try and bother to communicate with barriers. I can't count the number of times someone has finally screamed "never mind!" and made shooing…

Thank you for sharing. I had no idea that the introduction of masks has also had the side effect of making deaf people blind in this aspect. Yikes.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#207

Post by Bancakes » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

tarboreus wrote: post #79

Bancakes wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you project your stereotypes and expectations over your employees? They're adults and if they wanted partners/kids/office work, they would go and get them. Maybe you're the one who has to adapt to the new world instead of 'finding issues' and even assuming you're the one to 'fix' your employees.

Except that empirically, on average, they're miserable, by self-report. It's the most depressed generation. https://www.mhanational.org/number-people-reporting-anxiety-... https://www.aecf.org/blog/generation-z-and-mental-health Not great reports but I've read actual papers on this in the past.

I see those are American self-reports. From experience, here around Eastern Europe, I am surrounded by people content with being single. If anything, life doesn't get cheaper.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#208

Post by floydian10 » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

paul7986 wrote: post #188

Anyone else find dating to be different in the pandemic ... like it's harder to connect with people then before? Dating was never real easy for me, but wow since Dec 2020 to now ive went on 20 to 30 dates to new friend meetups (bumble bff) and really nothing materialized. I've even started talking about it with recent dates (since Sept) and meetups cause they bring it up themselves. I thought it was my age which is a…

I do. I mean, you do need to be in a good place to be able to connect, mentally and emotionally speaking. I can barely keep existing friendships these days.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#209

Post by cowuser666 » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 7:00 PM UTC

eldaisfish wrote: post #166

elbasti wrote: post #90

One of thing that is obvious to me is the bizarre cultural norm that, in the US, people are expected to move away from home at the age of 18 and then relocate more-or-less permanently far away from family and childhood friends. To my American friends this seems totally normal, and suggesting something different is ridiculed. An obvious consequence of this is that American adults have 3 or 4 "social fabric ruptures" a…

the ability to live, work and raise a family in a very limited geographic region is a privilege. For thousands of years, those who did not have that privilege moved. They moved to different regions, different countries and even different continents. That is the human story. I expect you are from western europe as that is one of the few places on the planet where a hundred kilometres really is a long way. Even in Euro…

I think it's a big step to say that people have done this throughout history to say it's been the norm. Fighting wars is normal historically as well, but most people in history didn't fight in a war.

I think it's also worth considering the extent to which these movements you're describing would have been undertaken by groups rather than individuals.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#210

Post by harambae » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 7:03 PM UTC

mandmandam wrote: post #198

therealdrag0 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate?

There are many neighborhoods in America that don't have coffee shops, at all. And many that you wouldn't want to be caught dead cycling around in on a pushbike. On a broader scale, the median wage in America is only ~30k, while the cost of rent and basics far outpaces any increase in wages. So the idea that people would use the time off from their excessive working lives to go hiking is actually a bit insulting. The…

>The reality is that poverty amplifies loneliness while reducing the ability to socialize

Without diminishing how incredibly unequal/bimodal some areas of America are, I wonder if the second part of this statement is statistically backed up.

When I was poor I frequently interacted with different people waiting for the bus, riding the subway, hanging out outside the mobile home park drinking, etc. Now, borderline-rich, I find it much harder to interact with people. I drive alone in a car, live in a luxury condo complex where no one talks to each other, etc. (Although there's also a pandemic going on so apples-to-oranges)

Stats seem mixed [0]

[0] https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/are_the_rich_m...