Live data from Hacker News

Command palettes: how typing commands became the norm again

capiche.com

201–210 of 279 posts

Re: Command palettes: how typing commands became the norm again

#201
post #136
post #6

Such a well written article/history. I applaud the trend. Love it. More smart-type CLIish interfaces, please.

author here, thank you!

Emacs should also have been mentioned, because M-x is a simple command palette and it's there for 30-40 years or so.

Re: Command palettes: how typing commands became the norm again

#202

Every macOS application has a command palette in the help menu: command-shift-/ will bring it up and you can incrementally search all the commands in the menus.

Back in the day I used Alfred on OS X... basically a system-wide command palette. Lots of its features now exist in Spotlight natively- not just file/folder search- it can do math equations, dictionary lookups, email search with date/keyword matching, currency and unit conversions, language translation, it also supports boolean operators. I have yet to find a similar functionality from any other OS.

For me, Ulauncher was game-changer on Linux.

Re: Command palettes: how typing commands became the norm again

#203

On Windows, you could press ALT to navigate the menu bar: each menu item would have a letter underlined to tell you how to select it, and when you picked a letter the menu would expand and each new item would have an underlined item etc. So you quickly discover and commit to muscle memory that ALT + F + S would select File then Save. This worked for dialog pop-up options as well so you didn't have to click. You can't…

This was a nightmare to deal with together with i18N. What if there were no available letters for doing something in a language for a particular command?

The solution was in the switch to Ribbons: the underlines were replaced with keytips that are displayed when you hit Alt and as such aren’t required to be a character in the command’s name.

Re: Command palettes: how typing commands became the norm again

#204
post #78

Something I've been noticing lately is the disappearance of the “power user”. Someone who's not a programer, but has learned lots of smart and efficient ways to getting their computer work done over the years. Shortcuts (keyboard or otherwise), click-hold-cmd-tab-drop or similar patterns, tags/labels for deep file organization, etc. It seems like there's now a much wider gap between the smartphone tap-only user and…

Are "power users" disappearing, or are they just being ignored? Software (and online services) has been in a race to the bottom for over a decade.

> Are "power users" disappearing, or are they just being ignored?

I believe they are mostly ignored.

A power user is a user, who doesn't fear the technical outcall. (S)he wants to get work done and uses a computer as a serious, professional tool. Sooner or later this will require this kind of user to step into configuration, the command line, etc. These users will accumulate IT knowledge auto-didactically, by visiting forums, mailing-lists, etc.

However, they come from many different positions and professions. And as such, they are a moving target of many, often highly specialized, communities. Not the typical customer base a large corporation wants. The large corporation will delegate such communities to "consultants", which those communities either can, or can not afford. I am not an archaeologist, but I could imagine, that archaeologists may benefit from tablets, that can do photos on-site and a document format, that let's them keep track of their excavations, link those to relevant data, etc. Photos like this [1] clearly show a pattern, that relies on coordinates. However, I guess, they are notoriously underfunded and nobody cares anyway.

> Software (and online services) has been in a race to the bottom for over a decade.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I remember the times of ActiveScripting on Windows. It was a great (and much needed) idea, that, however, has been positioned at system admins only (the most typical power user in a Windows environment, typically just some secretary or coworker, who is ready to do it, than a full position) and thus never really took off. Same for XML. Just because software-engineers don't like the format, it must not mean, that there is not some people being "document-engineers". Not everybody, who wants to use a computer programmatically, works at a Web/Cloud startup, etc.

[1]: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Virginia-Butler/publica...

Re: Command palettes: how typing commands became the norm again

#205
post #148
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious apps should come with event logs and command lines, period.

Correction: Event logs should be transaction logs instead and you must be able to travel through it reverting and re-applying actions. It should be branch-able and allow you to jump between those branches.

I can do that with Emacs. What other tools make it easy to branch in history?

Re: Command palettes: how typing commands became the norm again

#206
post #193
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like from a design and architecture point of view, building an application with the command line as a first class citizen will ensure that the application is well designed.

Have you ever run `rm -f important_doc.txt` instead of intended `rm -f important_doc copy.txt`? It doesn't matter if it is GUI or terminal interface, software must be _humane_, forgive mistakes and provide a way out. As much as love Unix coreutils and have them in may fingertips, those are the least humane programs I have ever used. Surprisingly, git seems quite humane, even when you screw things up it gives you a lo…

> Surprisingly, git seems quite humane, even when you screw things up it gives you a lot of safety mechanisms to recover.

You have to earn it. I admit that when I started using git sometimes I made a copy of the repo just in case I ended in a state that made it easier to nuke it and start again

Re: Command palettes: how typing commands became the norm again

#207
post #152
post #45

Emacs always has an embryonic version of that with M-x, but with a simple autocomplete. That’s is, until Helm arrived in 2011: it made everything that is a list something to be dynamically filtered (commands, shortcuts, buffers, files, etc). IntelliJ has a command palette too (Ctrl-Shift-a), but it’s horribly slow and has many items with the same name doing different things (try looking for “settings” for example). B…

Worth pointing out that Helm was a fork of anything.el, and I’m pretty sure stuff like Icicles predates even that by as much as a decade, so 2011 is underselling Emacs a bit here.

According to emacswiki anything.el (which was the predecessor of Helm) started in 2007. Compared to that Sublime v2 which had the command palette according to the article, came out in 2013.

Re: Command palettes: how typing commands became the norm again

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the keyboard shortcuts for a particular application are right next to the menu item. The command palette I’m talking about is clearly visible in the help menu: my theory is that people no longer browse the menus of a new application the way I would back in the NT 4.0 days. The system-wide shortcuts are a bit less discoverable but, they’re there if you know where to look: either search “keyboard shortcuts” in…

Thanks for this, I'll be sure to check out the keyboard preferences next time. I was referring to the "command-shift-/" key combo you mentioned when asking how to discover things in Mac OS, since it really feels that power-user functionality is hidden. I'm not exactly a Windows fan, but (generally speaking) in a standard windowed program, just hitting alt focuses the menu. Windows is almost entirely navigable by keyb…

Perhaps I'm biased, but I find navigating application menus on MacOS infinitely easier due to the fact that it's location is constant and dictated by Apple. On Windows (or even Linux) I have to go searching for the menu items for each new application I'm using, and some feature (like quitting) seems to often be purposefully hidden away. Infuriating if you ask me.

Re: Command palettes: how typing commands became the norm again

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s great for Ubuntu!

Except they dropped the feature when they switched to GNOME 3 in 2017.

There's Plotinus: https://github.com/p-e-w/plotinus

I've tried it, but it doesn't work in most of the apps I use like LibreOffice, Firefox, Double Commander.

Re: Command palettes: how typing commands became the norm again

#210
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tomorrows shells already exist: - murex https://murex.rocks - elvish https://elv.sh - fish

Tomorrow's shells would require changes to various command-line tools and possibly even the kernel. Just changing the shell executable is fundamentally limited, so it cannot be more than the first step. But thanks for the links anyway!

What sort of features are you thinking of that would require changes to the tools and/or the kernel?
Post reply on HN