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California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

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Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#201

Post by readams »

sharken wrote: post #60
hprotagonist wrote: post #11

"Yet for all the sound and fury, the proposed framework, about 800-pages long, is little more than a set of suggestions. Its designers are revising it now and will subject it to 60 more days of public review. Once it’s approved in July, districts may adopt as much or as little of the framework as they choose — and can disregard it completely without any penalty."

Sounds like a huge waste of taxpayers money, the silver lining is that sensible schools can disregard this bad idea altogether.

The bad schools will embrace it though, further exacerbating unequal access to good education.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#202

Post by giantg2 »

lordnacho wrote: post #176
friedman23 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think quite a bit. Congress regularly beats high end Wall Street investors when it comes to playing the equities market Politicians are not using math to decide which stocks to pick, they are using insider information. edit: ok, it's clear that the parent comment was sarcasm now but you never know

Are you not able to see the special font that sarcastic comments are rendered in?

I suppose it's a disability of mine.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#203

Post by unanswered »

bko wrote: post #56

This is one of those issues that I can't understand the opposing argument. It's just an issue I find so objectionable that I cannot understand why anyone would be imposing this. Literally holding kids back. The only defense I hear is that kids don't really benefit from advanced classes and they'll be fine anyway. But gifted children will not necessarily be fine. Most of the smartest people I know struggled in school…

You're not supposed to understand "the opposing argument", because it's fake. The real goal of this change is to increase the gap between kids whose family situation will give them an opportunity to learn actual math before college, and those whose family situation will keep them permanently locked out of college. This will ensure that the demographics of the next generation are even more skewed toward social instability and opportunities to replace "the current system".

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#205

Post by varelse »

One of the smartest guys I ever met, a professional magician by trade, learned calculus in the sixth grade.

In an age where advanced applied math skills are the shortest path to six and potentially seven-figure salaries, by all means dumb down California further than it's already been dumbed down, but I have to ask questions about where all that 10 to 14% state income tax money is going besides those ridiculous six-figure pensions for retired state employees.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#206

Post by xbpx »

I'm going to be controversial and say this has a marginal impact on educational outcomes. Probably skewed towards better as I'm assuming they've done their homework.

Look, kids who love math and nerd out in their spare time will still be tearing into calc in uni.

Those who don't will still pick up enough to hit the trades or JOB.

The kids who don't need advanced maths might actually get more out of what they do learn as it's delivered at a higher age.

Ok who knows maybe it has marginally lower outcomes over all. No one knows and the people in this thread decrying the end of exceptionalism are deluding themselves into thinking life outcomes are extremely sensitive to high school educational content. I don't think that's verifiable.

Getting people to school and keeping them from dropping out is likely a better first order optimization to overall outcomes. Kids are still going to get their calcs in uni and the universities will still be pumping out overly-educated overly-indebted young adults...

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#207

Post by globalise83 »

Why not stream the classes so that the intelligent fast learners learn algebra early and the slow learners pick it up towards the end of their time at school if at all? That way nobody is inconvenienced by disruption from those that don't get it, and those that don't get it don't get hurt feelings.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#208

Post by holonomically »

carabiner wrote: post #200
holonomically wrote: post #7

I was doing algebra and Russian math word problems in 4th grade (maybe earlier, it's been a while). What exactly is the logic of pushing back mathematical training to later grades? [1] 1: https://www.edhelper.com/geography/Russia_Math1.htm

Good for you. I met kids in 4th grade who struggled with their multiplication tables. What do you do for them?

Spend some extra time figuring out why they're struggling. But I suspect what you have in mind is something else, something more along the lines of leaving them behind.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#209

Post by carom »

jdkee wrote: post #45
logicalmonster wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an achievement gap for other groups such as Asian students?

Asian students outperform their white peers. See https://infogram.com/mathdisparities-ag-1h984wd3y7lv2p3

We shouldn't teach them until 11th grade, give everyone a few years head start.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#210

Post by lordnacho »

kccqzy wrote: post #144
fsn4dN69ey wrote: post #28

My parents introduced it to me at home around 4th-5th grade? So I was ~9-10yo? Not sure why delaying it will help, if anything the earlier the better. Everything I hear about "equity in education" seems to be making it worse, but more equally I guess. Like another poster already mentioned, reminds me of the Harrison Bergeron story by Vonnegut - seems like we are rapidly approaching that point. http://www.tnellen.com/…

My parents introduced algebra to me in third grade. It took me a long time in third grade to get it, so much so that I was a little bit afraid of algebra though certainly I didn't admit it to my parents. Fast forward a few years in school when the teacher introduced algebra in class (maybe sixth grade?), everything suddenly clicked, and I pretty much got the highest grade for several months straight because I learned…

That's how I learned a lot of things. My dad would mention what atoms are and that kind of thing, and I'd read about them in magazines, so them when it came to school it wasn't so big a leap to add a bit of rigour.
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