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Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

reuters.com

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Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#201

Post by bellyfullofbac »

beervirus wrote: post #183
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world's burning and you're nitpicking about this...

“We’re faking the world burning and you’re nitpicking about the fakery…”

Hah, I'm glad I'm not as brainwashed as you. But oh well, you think you're the clear thinking one and I'm the brainwashed one.

I'd try to convince you, but well, I think it'd be a waste of my energy, and I don't care enough to spend that energy for yet another idiot roaming the world thinking "It's all a giant conspiracy!". Besides, you've heard it all and you know you won't be fooled.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#202

Post by beervirus »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #201
beervirus wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“We’re faking the world burning and you’re nitpicking about the fakery…”

Hah, I'm glad I'm not as brainwashed as you. But oh well, you think you're the clear thinking one and I'm the brainwashed one. I'd try to convince you, but well, I think it'd be a waste of my energy, and I don't care enough to spend that energy for yet another idiot roaming the world thinking "It's all a giant conspiracy!". Besides, you've heard it all and you know you won't be fooled.

I mean I think AGW is obviously a thing. I’m just not so convinced that “the world is burning” or that the direst projections are anything but… theater.

And when people take things that were not caused by climate change, point at them and scream “LOOK, CLIMATE CHANGE,” they’re not doing any favors for the rationality cause.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#203

Post by tiagod »

ashtonkem wrote: post #66
ocschwar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tuvalu exists as a state because the international community decided to let them. They export coconuts and fishing licenses for hard currency, and there is no way they could muster the money and hardware to defend their patch of the ocean. So if the same institutions that decided to enable the foundation of the republic of Tuvalu decide to protect Tuvualuan territorial waters as a way to give the Tuvaluan diaspora so…

> there is no way they could muster the money and hardware to defend their patch of the ocean. You also cannot defend a patch of ocean without some land, at least with current technology. War ships require quite a bit of time in dry dock for fueling, refit, and rearmament. And that's before we consider the subpar fighting capability that crews without shore leave would provide. No, they'd still need to buy or borrow…

Even with the island fully submerged, I suppose the land won't be far enough underwater that you couldn't build a platform or something with foundations.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#204

Post by malermeister »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #198
malermeister wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a time for individuals to act. We need systemic change, not me recycling more or whatever. People like you trying to push the responsibility on the individual is why humanity will go extinct.

Systemic change is made from individual actions, and a time of crisis means individual actions get huge leverage. tldr - if you really believed in a climate crisis you'd be acting differently.

You're both underestimating the problem and overestimating the individual.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#205

Post by wahern »

vurpo wrote: post #194
wahern wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if there's a word for it, but pretty much every nation has at least one other nation that it traditionally looks down upon, usually one that to outsiders seems quite similar and which often have in fact strong ties between them. France and England are a classic example, though maybe a little odd in that it's mutual. (I suppose Argentina and Chile are similar in that regard--each thinks the other is categ…

I think it's actually that human cultures are infinitely nested, with every group containing subgroups with some level of disdain towards each other. Conflicts on a higher level often seem to "override" conflicts on the lower levels (although I don't know how often this actually is true). For example: I'm from Finland, and if our team plays hockey against Sweden it's as if there's a war against them or something. How…

I agree, national enmity is a manifestation of a broader phenomenon. Part of that broader phenomenon is that identity is typically defined, at least in part, in opposition to another group. And identities can nest, intersect, etc.

In context of island erosion, this poses the question of whether a nation without any territory can exist purely in opposition to another similarly situated nation (i.e. both sharing a positive history that is indistinguishable within the context of a broader society to which they've emigrated). And that creates an interesting ethical dilemma if the goal is to preserve national identity, especially one that has been "victimized" by [perpetrators of] global warming.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#206

Post by spiralx »

wahern wrote: post #192
BitwiseFool wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, perhaps not. In Hawaii there is actually a lot of tension between the Kanaka Maoli (Native Hawaiians), the Marshallese, and Micronesians. I am not keen as to exactly why this is, but I think it underscores the importance of providing more resources for both the Pacific Islanders already living receiving limited assistance, and the new arrivals. I think the government shouldn't just assume they'll get along b…

I don't know if there's a word for it, but pretty much every nation has at least one other nation that it traditionally looks down upon, usually one that to outsiders seems quite similar and which often have in fact strong ties between them. France and England are a classic example, though maybe a little odd in that it's mutual. (I suppose Argentina and Chile are similar in that regard--each thinks the other is categ…

Denmark looks down on Iceland, which in turn looks down on the Faroe Islands. Ari Eldjárn's stand-up talks about this and is well worth a watch :)

https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/81337086

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#207

Post by hasmanean »

number6 wrote: post #131
hasmanean wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very grim assessment. But yeah they might become the worlds first virtualized state for stateless people.

I can already see the Press Release: Meta preserves the Culture and unique Landmarks of Tuvalu on the Metaverse. The State of Tuvalu lives on through the efforts of Meta and is the first fully virtual State.

“We have incorporated their diversity into our own. We are Borg.”

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#208

Post by wrycoder »

hammock wrote: post #109

The image of the government official standing in the water "on what used to be dry land" is quite dramatic.[1] Unfortunately that land is not underwater due to climate change-driven sea level rise, but due to soil erosion. They do mention this fact, however the focus of the article inexplicably remains on rising sea levels. A factchecker might call that "missing context" (or worse). [1] https://www.reuters.com/resize…

Wikipedia:

"Over four decades, there had been a net increase in land area of the islets of 73.5 ha (2.9%), although the changes are not uniform, with 74% increasing and 27% decreasing in size. The sea level at the Funafuti tide gauge has risen at 3.9 mm per year, which is approximately twice the global average."

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#209

Post by smsm42 »

Something I'm missing here:

Tuvalu is an island with a population of around 11,000 people and its highest point is just 4.5m (15 ft) above sea level. Since 1993, sea levels have risen about 0.5cm (0.2 inches) per year, according to a 2011 Australian government report.

So they're talking about something that might happen in 900 years, if current trends hold (and we all know that all trends noted by the best scientists of 13th century totally proved to be accurate). And yet the article treats it as a problem that needs to be discussed right now, complete with a picture of an official standing knee-deep in water, and descriptions of how old people prepare to "go down with the land" (they must not be that old if they plan to live for several hundreds of years longer...)

This looks like cheap theatrics using real events to present scenarios which aren't relevant and probably won't be anytime worth talking about. I mean, there's surely coastal erosion problem but not from the 0.5cm per year thing.

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