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.NET 6 Released

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Re: .NET 6 Released

#201

Post by keithnz »

tonicbbleking wrote: post #109
polskibus wrote: post #102

I wish they put more effort into round 10 version of C# . Features presented will have minimal impact on productivity and maintainability.

Discriminated unions is one of those features that everyone talks about, but never gets championed. Wish C# 10 already had this feature. https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/discussions/2962

you can actually do them pretty easily in C# without language support anyways.

for instance, the F# example from https://fsharpforfunandprofit.com/posts/designing-for-correc...

can be done in C# like https://gist.github.com/keithn/ceeeed5f7eb567e1b2333747065d1...

almost similar amount of code, however, no exhaustive checking. Not that I find that to be much of a problem, but it would be nice

Re: .NET 6 Released

#202

Post by moogly »

ziml77 wrote: post #62
jekude wrote: post #34

As a relatively new engineer (~2 years FAANG experience), there seems to be a connotation around .NET. Perhaps this is indicative of the larger Microsoft ecosystem, but it feels like my peers at university and in the industry tend to stay far away from .NET for personal projects, etc. Why is this?

I think .NET is still seen as if it's Windows-only or Windows-first. If it does start being used cross-platform, I think it will take a lot more time to get there, especially since Java has been working just fine for the same sorts of projects. And it's an especially hard sell given that it doesn't have a good GUI situation. Support for Windows GUIs is back since .NET 5, but the cross platform options are weak. It's…

AIUI, MAUI does not include Linux support. There was a third-party effort to get that going, but it's not part of MAUI proper, and it looks somewhat moribund.

https://github.com/jsuarezruiz/maui-linux

Re: .NET 6 Released

#203

Post by svick »

throw868788 wrote: post #154
mattferderer wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Runs great on Linux in my experience & others * Great performance - https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r20&hw=... * Open source - Microsoft has made a lot of missteps but they have came a very long way. The bright side is both how far they've came & the outcomes of the recent missteps. * Very productive toolset imo. I focus mostly on web based tech though. I really like the syntax & type system. *…

I don't think F# is that second class anymore especially if you are developing on Linux/Mac OSX. The more concise language/syntax is a big plus when you don't want the heavy IDE and want to be cross platform. The VS Code plugin for example seems more mature than Omnisharp and while like any other Code plugin less flaky than many of the others. It seems to be keeping up with the broader .NET ecosystem pretty well I th…

I think there's at least one way in which F# is a second-class citizen: documentation. The documentation for anything in .Net will contain code in C#, but code in F# is quite rare.

So if you want to use F#, I think you still need to be able to read C# code.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#204

Post by ozim »

dschuessler wrote: post #33
phillipcarter wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Core lives _inside_ of .net 6? Is there a non-core ASP.NET that also lives inside that framework? Yep! > I thought .net 5 was where the legacy 4.x branch and core 3.1 was married in holy matrimony, minus the worst of the legacy garbage. .NET 5 was the next evolution of .NET Core. There was no great merging of legacy .NET Framework into the .NET Core branch or something like that. It saw a bunch of foundational stuf…

Microsoft branding is terrible. My only point of contact with it is Visual Studio Code which is different from Visual Studio which is different from Visual Studio for Mac. There was a brief period of time after I recognized that .NET really works on all platforms without proprietary stuff and before the `dotnet watch` desaster in which I was at least curious about .NET. But even then I never fully figured out how .NE…

There are more purposes for branding and if you have people calling themselves ".NET developers" you probably want to stick to that brand instead of coming up with something new that people would not trust.

I believe people would not jump as easily onto that wagon if it would be called "Silverlight Core".

Re: .NET 6 Released

#205

Post by wvenable »

atraac wrote: post #159
wvenable wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reply doesn't really have anything to do with your original comment. If Microsoft is producing a solid language / framework in the open and improving their product such that 3rd party "light-weight" libraries like Nancy are no longer necessary, why is that a bad thing? In my opinion, while other ecosystems have exploded in complexity in recent years, the increasing simplicity and batteries-included nature of .NE…

> If Microsoft is producing a solid language / framework in the open and improving their product such that 3rd party "light-weight" libraries like Nancy are no longer necessary, why is that a bad thing? Because they are killing community made solutions by reimplementing the same solution and utilizing community's habit of favoring only MS software that they themselves engraved into that community throughout the years…

If it's all open source, why does it matter? My node_modules folders are a good example of why having thousands of individual open source fiefdoms is not always a good thing.

I don't think the Avalonia example is a good one either. Nobody talks about why Ruby on Rails doesn't support Sintara. In other ecosystems, every project is in competition. Why should .NET be singled out.

I think the argument that open source software can't compete with Microsoft is total bunk. If the alternative is competitive, it can succeed. Dapper has been around for over 10 years. Avalonia is "used by >170,000 companies, including 431 on the Fortune 500 list" according to their own website. Xamarin joining Microsoft is pretty much why we're talking about .NET 6 right now. Microsoft's first party solutions are really very good (in house or acquired). This is again why you might choose .NET over a more chaotic ecosystem.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#206

Post by int_19h »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #25
slownews45 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace ".NET" with "Windows" maybe? AS a longtime original VB/Winforms developer - MS lost their mind on desktop development and didn't look back. They chased EVERY fad that could be chased. Silverlight, UPF, XAML, WPF, Islands, MAUI. This is one of those things - imagine if they'd focused on building an amazing and cross platform (ultimately) toolkit with just a basic drag and drop designer? Who cares about "stylin…

This has been their modus operandi forever. I've got to the point where I don't trust them on any of this stuff. I target WinForms and if they ever decide to kill that then I'll abandon the platform completely. >Who cares about "styling" your app and all the rest of the garbage. One of the problems with WPF is the lack of styling of the standard controls. It takes a lot of work to ensure your app doesn't look like a…

Why would you want to style standard controls in a desktop app? They should look the way they look everywhere else in the OS.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#207

Post by int_19h »

FpUser wrote: post #127
slownews45 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace ".NET" with "Windows" maybe? AS a longtime original VB/Winforms developer - MS lost their mind on desktop development and didn't look back. They chased EVERY fad that could be chased. Silverlight, UPF, XAML, WPF, Islands, MAUI. This is one of those things - imagine if they'd focused on building an amazing and cross platform (ultimately) toolkit with just a basic drag and drop designer? Who cares about "stylin…

>"They chased EVERY fad that could be chased. Silverlight, UPF, XAML, WPF, Islands, MAUI" Being a wise man I spared myself from this madness long time ago;) When I need Windows Desktop App I use Delphi or lately Lazarus that can do both Windows and Linux GUI from a single source and produce native standalone executables.

WinForms is still around, and works as well as it always did. That or WPF are still the sanest choices for desktop apps in .NET, IMO, so long as you're only targeting Windows. And WinForms specifically resembles VCL a lot.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#208

Post by LarryDarrell »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #25
slownews45 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace ".NET" with "Windows" maybe? AS a longtime original VB/Winforms developer - MS lost their mind on desktop development and didn't look back. They chased EVERY fad that could be chased. Silverlight, UPF, XAML, WPF, Islands, MAUI. This is one of those things - imagine if they'd focused on building an amazing and cross platform (ultimately) toolkit with just a basic drag and drop designer? Who cares about "stylin…

This has been their modus operandi forever. I've got to the point where I don't trust them on any of this stuff. I target WinForms and if they ever decide to kill that then I'll abandon the platform completely. >Who cares about "styling" your app and all the rest of the garbage. One of the problems with WPF is the lack of styling of the standard controls. It takes a lot of work to ensure your app doesn't look like a…

I've been using MahApps.Metro[1] and MaterialDesignXAML[2]. Those two libraries have made me feel like sticking with WPF until I retire in 5 to 10 years. I'm constantly getting feedback from clients that the applications look so modern. It's been a nice selling point as my niche is rewriting VBA/VB6 engineering software.

[1]https://mahapps.com/

[2]http://materialdesigninxaml.net/

Re: .NET 6 Released

#209

Post by svick »

jgilias wrote: post #200
jekude wrote: post #34

As a relatively new engineer (~2 years FAANG experience), there seems to be a connotation around .NET. Perhaps this is indicative of the larger Microsoft ecosystem, but it feels like my peers at university and in the industry tend to stay far away from .NET for personal projects, etc. Why is this?

I can chime in on this one. I think it's very much a 'culture' thing. So, I'm a *nix guy. You know, running Sway WM, using Doom Emacs as my daily driver, that sort of a thing. Learned vim to write my thesis at night on an armchair where using the mouse was not comfortable. Not long ago I accidentally got involved with a kind of a .NET consulting gig. Rather, I got involved as a domain expert to help out some SaaS sta…

> While writing it I needed something that would be 'just data' without any additional 'functionality' attached to it, so I naturally reached for `struct`, given that it exists in the language. The .NET guys asked why it was not a `class` instead. See, somewhere deep inside they felt that not wrapping everything in a `class` is wrong on some fundamental level.

The difference between a class and a struct in C# is not the same as between a class and a struct in C++. In C#, structs can definitely be useful, but also have some gotchas, so they're mostly used only in performance-critical parts of the code.

If you visit a foreign tribe, I think you should listen to the locals, unless you are really certain your way of doing things is better in the local context.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#210

Post by int_19h »

pleb_nz wrote: post #36
jekude wrote: post #34

As a relatively new engineer (~2 years FAANG experience), there seems to be a connotation around .NET. Perhaps this is indicative of the larger Microsoft ecosystem, but it feels like my peers at university and in the industry tend to stay far away from .NET for personal projects, etc. Why is this?

I can't answer your question directly but I can add that what I've noticed is frameworks and language seem to be very regionally orientated. I've noticed on some parts Java seems popular, other parts .net, and so on. It's quite interesting to see differences in job ads across regions globally. In my region, .net is used extensively and my friends do tend to use it for personal projects.

I once saw a world map annotating the dominant dev stack in different regions, and yes, it's absolutely a thing.
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