The benefits of staying off social media • Hacker News Board

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#201

Post by trutannus » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

tumblewit wrote: post #146

trutannus wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's what they're getting at. My understanding of this was that "people who actually care about you will find a way ". Someone who does not actually care about you won't bother. So chances are, if the person was only in contact with you because you're on Facebook, they don't really care about you in the first place. Cutting off someone who can't be bothered to get in touch with you is pretty normal.

Exactly! Most people now just text me if they want to know about me. I realised so many of these ‘friends’ only cared enough to like pictures or make a comment on them. Beyond that they weren’t interested. It’s better to not have such friends than have them as you are getting a false sense of friendship not a real one. I can’t believe people don’t see this problem yet. Not to mention the fact that if I actually meet…

Agreed. False senses of friendships can lead you to think you have more friends than you do. Having a better sense of who actually cares lets you assess if you need to see out new friends. The more accurately you know who your friends are, the more able you are to determine if you need to go make more/new friends.

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#202

Post by kodah » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

hackernews777 wrote: post #196

ipdashc wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where people consider talking to someone a chore. This bit in particular really hit me. I've noticed a rising trend around the Internet (or maybe I was just blind to it before), mostly on Reddit, of people who really do seem to consider any sort of real-life social interaction a chore and an attack. I forget the exact context, I think the conversation that stood out to me was about someone in a gas station or somet…

It is a chore to open your mouth. A person shouldn't be subject to being prepared to engage in a 100 different conversations for the crime of walking outside their house. It also doesn't help that the vast majority of interactions are negative (pan handling, cat calling, sales pitches, political affiliations, religious evangelism, scams, asking for favors / free stuff, bullying, snooping, etc.)

Doesn't this track with human existence? Most of my inbox is spam, even if I fight to control it. That doesn't mean I turn my email off or never use it. All of the activities you noted suck, but there's a lot more humans looking for something other than that. I ride my bike around town a lot and end up meeting a lot of strange people because of that. Some people think it's weird and obviously straight up other me if I say, "hi" -- but who would I be if I didn't? When I lived in San Diego a good number of these interactions ended up in me being able to get someone homeless water (fun fact, not all homeless people look what one might think is homeless.)

One time, I ran across a guy who was clearly struggling with a very messy divorce and struggling to get back on his feet. I sat down and just listened for the better part of an hour. I shared my own story of struggle and loss, and at the end he seemed like a large weight had been lifted from his shoulders. Sometimes, all people need is a bit of connection to get through life. Someone to acknowledge their existence in a world that otherwise doesn't care about them or their story. I'm by no means a priest or hippie, just an average dude who rides a bike and likes to say, "hi".

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#203

Post by nobody9999 » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

micromacrofoot wrote: post #102

ipdashc wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where people consider talking to someone a chore. This bit in particular really hit me. I've noticed a rising trend around the Internet (or maybe I was just blind to it before), mostly on Reddit, of people who really do seem to consider any sort of real-life social interaction a chore and an attack. I forget the exact context, I think the conversation that stood out to me was about someone in a gas station or somet…

>I forget the exact context, I think the conversation that stood out to me was about someone in a gas station or something, trying to make friendly conversation with another shopper next to them, along the lines of "oh that's a cool hat". And the consensus of the thread was "yeah that's awful, why would you do that, why are you subjecting them to the labor of talking to you" or such. This is kind of an American way o…

>If you're lonely and want to meet people, don't try to do it via small talk with strangers. Join a club, take a class, volunteer. Go to places where interaction is expected, do not foist it upon strangers just trying to go about their daily lives.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't make small talk to meet other people.

If the moment allows it and I'm in the mood, I enjoy making an offhand comment about something interesting or amusing that's going on around me.

If that's not well received, I just move on. It's no big deal (at least not to me) if others aren't interested.

I will say that, at least for me, 7-8 times out of 10, the interaction is welcomed and comfortable. That said, I do try hard to be personable and polite. That usually makes a big difference.

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#204

Post by strogonoff » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

streamofdigits wrote: post #129

We are stuck in the twilight zone. I have never seen a serious defense of the dystopic status quo of current tech. I would have loved to. If you read an honest, intelligent argument (that comes from a recognizably human psyche, not a lawyer, or a cynical, amoral capital accumulator) it can "open your eyes". It can convince you that your view is missing an important angle. That can be liberating, exhilarating even as…

I think the sense of doom (which I’m no stranger to myself) comes from thinking of the existing Big Social advertiser-oriented products as ends in themselves of sorts, and from bundling all their users into one big group of Big-Social-enthusiasts. In reality, the “ends” here are diverse communities, subcultures, networks of individuals that keep in touch. They become the product because they use whatever works, not because they necessarily endorse or approve those platforms for their own sake.

The first arrival of the Web and waves of network effects and excitement fueled the big platforms of today, but after all that hype those smaller islands-communities are becoming more pronounced among the general disillusionment (domestic cozy and all that). And, luckily, the smaller a community or subculture, the easier it is for it to switch to a self-hosted or more honest alternative.

Undoubtedly, ad-driven platforms will try to retain those islands by providing features or side-products communities might find convenient. However, as independent alternatives become mature and reliable, I hope the savvier and more conscious communities will[0] be resisting feeding the Big Social’s troll-driven data-mining oligopoly (or whichever next shady fad) and stay out, except for an odd visit to publish something intended for a wider audience or watch the dumpster fire burn out of morbid curiosity.

I think raising and maintaining awareness of the grossness of shady business models and their consequences, as well as vetting and suggesting alternatives, is best we can do.

[0] Most likely many already do, but naturally I wouldn’t hear about it unless I’m part of one. (Notably, as a result of this migration, many communities might become more closed, which is a bit sad to consider—and yes, Big Social is very much not without blame here again.)

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#205

Post by nobody9999 » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 6:26 PM UTC

gameman144 wrote: post #131

micromacrofoot wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I forget the exact context, I think the conversation that stood out to me was about someone in a gas station or something, trying to make friendly conversation with another shopper next to them, along the lines of "oh that's a cool hat". And the consensus of the thread was "yeah that's awful, why would you do that, why are you subjecting them to the labor of talking to you" or such. This is kind of an American way o…

I hear this all the time I'm these discussions, but I call bunk. Sure, small talk is filler content, but you're not going to jump straight into the more meaningful conversations with people you don't yet know. The filler small talk content isn't the substance, it's the launching point for those more substantive conversations. For instance, maybe you got the hat at a concert in Wichita, and this person at the gas stat…

>The filler small talk content isn't the substance, it's the launching point for those more substantive conversations.

While that's certainly possible, it doesn't need to be a launching point for anything.

It can just be an offhand remark, a chuckle and a reply and off you go. Not every interaction needs to have some sort of agenda or goal associated with it.

At least that's how I see it.

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#206

Post by mmcdermott » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 6:29 PM UTC

II2II wrote: post #181

irrational wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of us consider (or used to consider; and I'm not even old) that enjoyable. Eh, I’m 50 years old and don’t really use social media (certainly not Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, twitter, etc.). I don’t even really text other people. But, I don’t agree with your sentiment. I’ve never understood people who want to have small talk with strangers. It is the opposite of enjoyable.

Heck, I'm not even a fan of small talk. It's not as though I have an aversion to talking. Discussing things of mutual interest is fine. Listening to people who have interesting stories, or even need to get something off their chest, is fine. But small talk has always struck me as the means by which people fill silence. You don't really learn anything about each other.

Small talk can certainly be a vacuous attempt to fill the silence. It also seems to act as a social lubricant, moving with easy questions and accelerating into something more meaningful.

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#207

Post by nobody9999 » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 6:37 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #197

nobody9999 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I grew up in Midwest USA and lived for an extended period of time in NYC. "Small talk" is almost non-existent in NYC where it is very normal to stop on the street in the Midwest and converse with complete strangers. I grew up in NYC and have lived in a variety of places around the US. To a certain extent, your observation about NYC is valid. But only to a point. In NYC, if you're walking down the (very crowded) stre…

I think there's something a little more complicated than that going on. I remember even when I was a college student who rode public transit in Saratoga Springs (small city in up state New York), it was normal to start a conversation with random people on the bus, or with the bus driver. Sometimes I would initiate it, often others would. That just doesn't happen in New York. Maybe that's due to space constraints, but…

>That just doesn't happen in New York. Maybe that's due to space constraints, but it's not like I'm blocking the flow of traffic more or less when I talk to someone on a bus.

>I like New York a lot, but this sort of small talk with strangers is absolutely something I miss.

It's not about blocking the flow of traffic. It's about not invading the (already small) personal space of others. I think the appropriate term is "etiquette."

As I said, there are absolutely appropriate situations in NYC to engage with others. It's just that those situations are different from those that are appropriate in other places.

As someone who was born and raised in NYC (and who lives here again), that's normal to me.

As someone who's lived in a dozen other places all over the US, those situations are different in many places.

In a walkable small town, it's normal to (at a minimum) nod in acknowledgement of those you pass by on the street. In NYC, when you pass by a couple hundred people in the space of a couple blocks, if you tried to do that you'd end up with whiplash.

In places where everyone is in their car unless they're at the place they wish to go, it's not unusual to interact with folks at those places. But you certainly wouldn't roll down your window and say hello every time you encountered another car.

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#208

Post by durmonski » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 6:40 PM UTC

Thank you for sharing my post. I wrote it mainly because I'm worried. Terrified that my kid will have to live a life inside a virtual world - not the real world. I'm saying "have to" because when the meta world hit us, we will no longer NOT talk to others because we're staring at our phones. We'll don't even see each other. We'll have people around us but experiencing different worlds. It will be a lonely place. No one on the streets. People only living in simulations.

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#209

Post by nobody9999 » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

alehlopeh wrote: post #144

chartpath wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This resonates with me a lot as someone who gave up music and university for programming in my early 20s. And yet, mediocre content abounds in the media. How should that be explained?

I think it’s because content by definition is mediocre, otherwise it would be called art.

>I think it’s because content by definition is mediocre, otherwise it would be called art.

Even if it's mediocre, it can still be art IMHO.

Rather, I think it's just that Sturgeon's Law[0] applies to most things.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#210

Post by hackernews777 » Mon, Nov 08, 2021, 6:44 PM UTC

kodah wrote: post #202

hackernews777 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a chore to open your mouth. A person shouldn't be subject to being prepared to engage in a 100 different conversations for the crime of walking outside their house. It also doesn't help that the vast majority of interactions are negative (pan handling, cat calling, sales pitches, political affiliations, religious evangelism, scams, asking for favors / free stuff, bullying, snooping, etc.)

Doesn't this track with human existence ? Most of my inbox is spam, even if I fight to control it. That doesn't mean I turn my email off or never use it. All of the activities you noted suck, but there's a lot more humans looking for something other than that. I ride my bike around town a lot and end up meeting a lot of strange people because of that. Some people think it's weird and obviously straight up other me if…

No it doesn't track with human existence. In the past such things lead to wars and large schisms in societies, it is completely abnormal for the vast majority of anything to be negative and the prevailing wisdom be just grin and bear it.

The USA was founded on the idea of negative rights and an opt in culture, instead today we increasingly see a shift to people demanding positive rights and putting the burden on the individual to opt out. In the future I could totally see a market to have a robot buddy follow you around and have responses ready for all the things people want to pester you with.