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Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

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Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#201

Post by helge9210 »

yonixw wrote: post #146
tartoran wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever wondered why those people are protesting? If you only follow the history of the region you’d quickly realize that Israel did (and does) terrorize their neighbors who in turn retaliated and the vicious cycle of vendettas on eachother continues to this day. What is realy cool about Israel is that they’re a democratic country and a large part of their country denounces all this violence, there is a way forward towa…

1) Molotov != Protest 2) > follow the history of the region > terrorize their neighbors Counter example: 2005: Israel unilateral dismantling of the 21 Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip 2007: Hamas takeover of Gaza 2007: Gaza Blockade I do not think we see the history of the region in the same way.

> Molotov != Protest

Molotov is not only a protest, it is a peaceful protest without weapon which is a human right.

> Hamas takeover of Gaza

You do know, that Hamas is an ally of Israel in Gaza, don't you?

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#202

Post by pthread_t »

whimsicalism wrote: post #172
bawolff wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type of analysis is kind of hard, because you could also say that Israel's enemies would benefit a lot from this sort of thing being discovered.

False flags pretty much never happen irl, they are much more popular in the minds of internet commentators.

Then you may find this article interesting:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/01/13/false-flag/

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#203

Post by DSingularity »

helge9210 wrote: post #197
yonixw wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel, a country that terrorizes Palestinians on the daily accuses They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized. > accuses everyone that fights it as terrorists. If they hurt bystanding civilians (and they do) or funnel money for it (and they do) there is nothing wrong with that. > Maybe some are They are, Hamas, Hezbolla…

> They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized. But sending an army unit with an order "break the village" which results in shock grenades being dropped into a cradle with the baby inside does qualify them as being terrorized. Note: I'm Israeli and was working with people who got those orders and carried them out during thei…

Thank you for your courage to say that.

It is also funny how often people forget why the riots start in the first place. So often it seems to be that the riots are precipitated by egregious abuse by settlers/army/police/Israeli policy. Abuse the people long enough and they will rage.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#204

Post by boomboomsubban »

bawolff wrote: post #120
boomboomsubban wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your goal is to hurt Israel, I doubt you would give money to the NSO Group to spy on Palestinian human rights defenders in the hopes that some day their targets list becomes public. As if that violation of Palestinian rights would suddenly turn people against Israel. And if it's their enemies are behind the hack and then are adding false information to hurt Israel, there are so many better targets. Any US journali…

I was thinking more if you had access to some leaked nso exploits somehow, not paying them. And i do think israel is vulnerable to bad PR, especially right now when there has been a lot of it recently - at least that seems to be its weakest point right now. Its not like anyone is going to win a straight up military conflict with them. > Any US journalist critical of Israel for example. But if you do that, NSA becomes…

>But if you do that, NSA becomes involved, much easier to get discovered.

I think you're overestimating how much the NSA saying "no no, the NSO Group didn't spy on the US, it was planted by those tricksy Iranians" would diminish the story.

I also disagree that Israel is particularly vulnerable to negative PR right now. I somewhat wonder if you're just noticing more stories critical of them because the latest event is tech related.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#205

Post by whimsicalism »

pthread_t wrote: post #202
whimsicalism wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False flags pretty much never happen irl, they are much more popular in the minds of internet commentators.

Then you may find this article interesting: https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/01/13/false-flag/

That was Israel financing attacks against Iranian officials.

I was using it in the modern usage, as in:

> The term today extends to include countries that organize attacks on themselves and make the attacks appear to be by enemy nations or terrorists, thus giving the nation that was supposedly attacked a pretext for domestic repression and foreign military aggression.

This article is clearly using false flag to mean proxy conflicts, which I don't think is the colloquial understanding of the term.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#206

Post by cultofmetatron »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #180

calling them "defenders" of human right implies that there is a war being fought (by Israel) against human rights. I don't believe that this has been adequately demonstrated, therefore i think the title is inflammatory and misleading. Please can you change it, Dang

Palestinians live in an apartheid state so I'd argue very much that this is a human rights issue.

(I know I'll get lots of downvotes for this and I accept that)

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#207

Post by VictorPath »

q1w2 wrote: post #161
otrahuevada wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you count the oddly vague couple admissions extracted under torture from some random accountants as evidence of something, which you shouldn't because torture is not and shouldn't ever be considered a valid way to extract actionable information, being "fair" has nothing to do with what is being done here.

There is no evidence of torture whatsoever. This is a strange lie you keep posting with your link to 972mag, a biased Palestinian defense magazine. If you dig a little deeper at what the actual accountant's lawyer said - he said his client was seated in a chair with his hands tied behind his back during his initial arrest. Inventing a new name ("The shabah position") doesn't make it torture. Obviously the lawyer want…

> This is a strange lie you keep posting with your link to 972mag, a biased Palestinian defense magazine.

972mag is a magazine founded by Jewish journalists in Tel Aviv. When an Israeli magazine run by Jews condemns torture of Palestinians and is called a "Palestinian defense magazine", you have to wonder how provincial the thought process that would use that label is. Considering world opinion on the human rights of Palestinans who were tortured by Israel, which includes these journalists, and which includes their political pole within Jewish Israeli society, you have to wonder how isolated the group on the other side of all of this is.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#208

Post by LegitShady »

ashtonkem wrote: post #185
LegitShady wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because it would compromise means and methods

Tough. The logical consequence of “we can’t show you the proof” is “okay, I don’t believe that you have any”. After all, you would not believe my assertions about fantastical achievements without evidence, and the consequences of that hypothetical are much lower than the state saying it should be able to kill people in the name of “counter terrorism”. More succinctly; “it would compromise means and methods” is a phen…

flipside of tough - you're demanding a foreign nation compromise its security so that you can feel better. You and your demands are nobody and nothing to a foreign state. So no. tough.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#210

Post by jjcon »

cultofmetatron wrote: post #206
FridayoLeary wrote: post #180

calling them "defenders" of human right implies that there is a war being fought (by Israel) against human rights. I don't believe that this has been adequately demonstrated, therefore i think the title is inflammatory and misleading. Please can you change it, Dang

Palestinians live in an apartheid state so I'd argue very much that this is a human rights issue. (I know I'll get lots of downvotes for this and I accept that)

> Palestinians live in an apartheid state

I’m not sure that means what you think it does

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