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Tech compensation in 2021

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Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#201

Post by websap »

hnxs wrote: post #141
websap wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are many other companies now paying or exceeding FAANG. Some of them are - Stripe, Databricks, Coinbase, Dropbox, Uber, Lyft, Twitter (to some extent), DoorDash, Airbnb, etc We no longer live in a FAANG only world. FAANG companies are now trying exceptionally hard to hire talent. A lot of the FAANG perks were in-office, as the world continues to accept the remote first worker, they are only going to hav…

the companies you listed have been competing with faang for talent since they were formed. they’ve always had to pay competitively

Which is the point I'm trying to make. To think that only FAANG companies pay that much is incorrect. Multiple companies are now competing to hire great talent and the only way forward is that they pay competitively.

I wouldn't want any engineer to ever consider a job which doesn't pay them a fair market wage.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#202

Post by diskzero »

moneywoes wrote: post #175
diskzero wrote: post #170

These compensation amounts reflect what I am seeing in the market. Whenever I see these amounts, like many others, I am somewhat amazed, but then I stop, look at my own history and reflect on the environment that supports paying a Staff engineer $300k a year. Here is my story, which may or may not shed some light on working in high tech in Silicon Valley. I was part of a couple of successful startups in Portland, OR…

Brilliant read, thank you for sharing. Looking back, would you have stayed in Portland?

A very good question, thanks for asking! I think about that a lot. This answer is going to get a little bit deep (for me) so please forgive me.

My career later took me to Los Angeles in 2009 and then to Seattle in 2018. Both my wife and I gave a lot to our careers. My wife also worked at Apple, but had a huge change of heart and went back to school to get a masters in social work. She was also an Army Reservist and was deployed to Iraq a couple of times and various other spots in the world. Regardless of ones opinion of America's foreign adventures, she felt that she was making a difference in the lives of people (she was in Civil Affairs) when she deployed.

After a few years in Seattle at Amazon, we both decided to step back from the fast pace of life. We moved to Tucson, AZ, she worked with veterans and I did some consulting and taught programming to adults wanting a career change for Startup Tucson. Life finally seemed pretty good!

Sadly, my wife passed from cancer a few weeks ago, so I often reflect on our thirty years together. How much time was consumed with the frenzy of startups and Apple, etc? If I could go back in time and spend every possible moment with her rock climbing, camping, skiing, holding hands, working with the homeless, enjoying a slow Sunday reading by the fire, etc. I would do that in an instant.

She was 51 and I am 53. We both thought we had a lot of time left! As for me, I am entirely unexceptional. I was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time for a lot of things. My advice to anyone who may be in a similar position to what I was in a few years ago is to take a pause, zoom out and look at the big picture. We love to talk about IPOs, exits, deal sheets, cap tables and more. This is all fleeting. We only really have each other and the most important capital is human capital, especially when provided by the ones you love and who love you.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#203

Post by nextos »

beebmam wrote: post #85
missedthecue wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or are labor unions in Europe just that much less effective at bargaining? Ah yes, the famously powerful US software engineer's union.

My point is: it seems to me that it is possible that labor unions in Europe are less effective at bargaining than individuals in the US, but I'd like to see research. I didn't intend to imply the US software industry is unionized; the US barely has any union jobs in 2021.

It's also a cultural thing.

In EU, traditionally, business people are paid much more than technical personnel. Prominent engineers are valued, but only to some extent. For example, mechanical engineer salaries in top German corporations are not that high, and they are bringing in a lot of value.

Let's not forget most FAANG founders were computer scientists, plus there's a shortage top talent. Electrical engineer salaries at Intel, AMD or ARM are, as far as I know, nothing to call home about.

With that said, we are starting to see some IT positions with really nice compensations. Mostly in CH, NL, DK and UK as far as I can tell.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#204

Post by odiroot »

beebmam wrote: post #23
KronisLV wrote: post #14

As someone who works in an Eastern European country, i also did a writeup on how much i've made over the years and how that figure has changed, while working for a local company: https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/on-finances-and-savings In short, this year i'll probably make around 18k Euros, in total. I guess that just goes to show how different the situation is depending on where you live and where you're employed.

Why are these numbers so massively different across the world? Do European companies generate that much less revenue? Or are labor unions in Europe just that much less effective at bargaining? Or is productivity that much lower in Europe? (I'm not sold on any of these)

If anything, if there are unions, they keep the engineers salaries down. At least that was my experience in Berlin, Germany.

Unions don't want "privileged" engineers to earn much more than average office worker.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#205

Post by Hermitian909 »

farnsworth wrote: post #200
nickjj wrote: post #193

Are a lot of these 300k-500k TC positions putting in 40 hour work weeks or more? I think that's worth bringing up because it's a huge factor at the end of the day. For example, getting 400k TC but you routinely put in 60-80 hours a week is much different than 40 hours a week. Personally I would much prefer working 30-40 hours a week for X vs 60-80 hours a week for X * 2. The amount of taxes you pay in the X * 2 range…

I think plenty of these people are lying on the internet and um, rounding up a little.

Eh, I helped several people job hunt this year, here are the offers accepted (total comp, not salary, which tends to cap around 200k). None of the people listed have more than 5 years of experience:

200k (fresh grad)

352k

452k

507k

412k

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#206

Post by adventured »

jsjohnst wrote: post #93
beebmam wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is: it seems to me that it is possible that labor unions in Europe are less effective at bargaining than individuals in the US, but I'd like to see research. I didn't intend to imply the US software industry is unionized; the US barely has any union jobs in 2021.

> the US barely has any union jobs in 2021 In software, sure, but to say there barely are any union jobs in the US currently is wildly inaccurate.

For reference (for anyone curious) presently ~10% of US jobs are unionized. 40 years ago it was around to ~20%.

https://usafacts.org/articles/labor-union-membership/

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#207

Post by rootusrootus »

Rapzid wrote: post #94
rootusrootus wrote: post #31

In other news, if you aren't in the valley or working for one of the big tech companies, you're probably making 100-150K as a mid/senior developer. There's a pretty sizable leap.

Probably but not necessarily. Don't aspire to be most software engineers if you don't want to get paid like most software engineers haha. I'll add a data point. I live in a 90 COL index city(I don't live in a 90 area though) and will clear >300k this year total cash comp at a non-FAANG company working remote. Earlier this year I had a 200k base salary offer for a staff full stack eng role at a startup(that just raise…

Agreed, there are plenty of people, clearly, that are doing significantly better. My data comes from my own experience, and it may vary. I have been in management, and with that I had access to comp information for a variety of engineers in our organization located at offices across the U.S. I also have a network of former coworkers and friends throughout the Pacific Northwest and we share (roughly, not specifics) how we're doing for comp.

I'm getting old enough to worry about ageism myself (mid-40s) and my total comp is just a bit over 200K this year. That's not bad for Portland, but when I see the numbers tossed about on HN it makes me want to take Facebook up on their interview requests. Probably amount to nothing, but I'm thinking I really ought to open up and start renewing my interview experience before it gets any harder.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#208

Post by odiroot »

cryptoz wrote: post #43
HenryKissinger wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all of that. European tech companies are smaller than US tech companies, have lower gross revenue per employee, make less profit per employee. Taxes are higher in Europe, which disincentivizes risk taking and ambitious individuals. Labor productivity is also lower in Europe. Finally, Europe still has a culture where software engineers, cloud architects/products/managers/etc. are viewed as code monkeys and the pe…

> Taxes are higher in Europe, which disincentivizes risk taking and ambitious individuals. This seems backwards to me. A society with higher taxes typically has better social safety nets, better infrastructure, less corruption, etc. Higher-tax societies incentivize risk-taking, not the other way around, especially for "ambitious individuals". When there is more structure and support around, more people are able to ta…

High taxation creates a perfect environment for corruption.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#209

Post by steve_adams_86 »

loeg wrote: post #125
cosmodisk wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that work with the recent 'they need to return to the office' + anyone remotely working for Facebook outside the US will never make hundreds of thousands as a developer.

Facebook announced they would allow all employees to work remotely a few months ago. Pay is location-adjusted.

> Pay is location-adjusted

This is why I'm not responding. I have a feeling their Canadian offers won't look anything like the article suggests.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#210

Post by eegg7 »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #90

20 years experience, two books under my belt, and lead architect (with a CTO title) on several good sized projects and most I have ever gotten in $175k... every time I see an article like this, I think I am doing something "very wrong" I live about 40 miles outside of Boston. Edit: Looking at levels.fyi for Boston that actually puts me above the median[1]. Why the heck is Boston so low compared to other markets? Edit…

The best thing I did for my career was leave Boston for an entry level FANG job on the West Coast 10 years ago. I currently make more than 10x what I was making in Boston. But it has been a grind no doubt. And probably some luck.
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