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Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

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Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#201

Post by martimarkov »

jobu wrote: post #97
ksec wrote: post #83

I am pretty sure I read something similar before. Probably from Benedict Evans or somewhere else. I think the most important issue from these email isn't the lack of Alternative App Store, IAP, or 70/30 split. It is that Apple Execs has Zero understanding of how other business works especially with respect to Internet or Software Services. They continue to think Netflix as a physical product ( As they often like to c…

That's interesting. As a developer I've often felt outright hostility coming from Apple developer relations, and maybe it's this lack of a partnership mentality. They generally treat end users really well, but it's like they see external developers as some sort of parasite feeding on their products. In my experience it's difficult to get actual technical help unless you personally know someone internal to Apple.

Actually I've been invited to a 2 day developer session by Apple in the UK. It was very cool and educational - 2017 I think. It was all about partnership and how Apple can help all the 20 or so apps that are out there, what different APIs and new features the Apps can use and they had team members from a variety of different areas of the business. They didn't check that my app was using RN at the time so... :D

But needless to say that is a very different XP in comparison to all the millions of engineers who don't get that chance and the dev forums are useless most of the time.

Anyways just wanted to share that as an XP as I've never heard of anyone else ever been on one of these from my tech friends.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#202

Post by wolverine876 »

CardenB wrote: post #192
JohnBooty wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple by comparison demands 15% which is 3.5x as much of a cut. Apple provides credit card processing, and approval into the App Store (plus according to a comment in this email, it sounds like they keep Netflix in the App Store promotion rotation as "free" ad-space). This isn't anywhere near the value that AWS provides That's debatable. To put it mildly. Apple provides them access to, literally, nearly a billion pot…

Apple doesn’t provide access to these customers. Maybe a small portion are limited to iOS access for Netflix. In reality there are many general service platforms that provide access to Netflix in combination with ISPs. If chrome had a 15% fee to allow users to access websites then I think it would be pretty damaging to innovation on the web.

> If chrome had a 15% fee to allow users to access websites then I think it would be pretty damaging to innovation on the web.

It would also be very damaging to Chrome, because users would promptly download another browser. People generally carry one phone and switching to another is much more costly than switching browsers.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#203

Post by brokencode »

JohnBooty wrote: post #187
jacurtis wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For comparison Netflix spends about $1.2 Billion dollars per year on AWS (Amazon Web Services). Their total revenue last year was 27.5B. So that means that AWS fees account for 4.3% of Netflix's revenue. AWS is streaming video, operating hundreds of edge location CDN locations, and everything else running on expensive server infrastructure. AWS has real serious costs with offering that service, to the point that Netf…

Apple by comparison demands 15% which is 3.5x as much of a cut. Apple provides credit card processing, and approval into the App Store (plus according to a comment in this email, it sounds like they keep Netflix in the App Store promotion rotation as "free" ad-space). This isn't anywhere near the value that AWS provides That's debatable. To put it mildly. Apple provides them access to, literally, nearly a billion pot…

That’s an extremely charitable assessment. Everybody knows what Netflix is already. There is little need for Netflix to market its service. They benefit from marketing specific shows, but I really doubt they benefit from marketing the app itself.

And even if they did, 15% of their revenue for marketing? Forever? That is some amazingly expensive marketing.

Apple is extracting rent, plain and simple. If they truly cared to partner with Netflix and make them successful, they wouldn’t have launched their own competing product that they get to host on their App Store rent-free.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#204

Post by smoldesu »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #196
Retric wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, legally it’s clear Apple can charge whatever they want. The actual leverage large companies have is by not having their Apps on iOS Apple may lose customers. But at this point I doubt Netflix is willing to risk it as there is simply to many streaming options. However, Netflix doesn’t need to use IAP so for them it’s a question of increased conversions with IAP rather than dropping the platform. Assuming their al…

> But at this point I doubt Netflix is willing to risk it as there is simply to many streaming options. Well, but as you point out, they aren't using IAP at the moment so there's nothing to risk. An interesting question is what would happen if Apple decided to play hardball and demand Netflix use IAP again, with no external option, similar to what is required for video games. Honestly, my money would be on Netflix pu…

Moreover, Netflix is an app that would work perfectly fine in the browser. Netflix was providing a native app as a courtesy to the customer, not the other way around. Most Netflix subscribers I know would probably shake their fist at Apple and God and then go back to binging Friends in Safari.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#205

Post by mkishi »

martimarkov wrote: post #199
jacurtis wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For comparison Netflix spends about $1.2 Billion dollars per year on AWS (Amazon Web Services). Their total revenue last year was 27.5B. So that means that AWS fees account for 4.3% of Netflix's revenue. AWS is streaming video, operating hundreds of edge location CDN locations, and everything else running on expensive server infrastructure. AWS has real serious costs with offering that service, to the point that Netf…

Maybe this is not a popular opinion but I think that Apple do provide the value. They created the device, the OS, the marketing behind it, the physical stores, all of that. The iPhone is an iconic device because of all the investment Apple put into it. Yes, there are also the millions of developers and apps out there. But the one thing that Apple did right (for me and I guess most iOS users) is that they kept control…

Remove all third-party apps from the ecosystem. How long do iDevices survive in this scenario? Even now that it's already such a behemoth of a platform?

Now do the opposite—make Apple as a whole disappear. What would app developers do?

I'm not saying Apple doesn't provide value, but let's not pretend they don't need the third-party developers they are so keen on squeezing no matter what. More than they need Apple, at least.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#206

Post by they4kman »

martimarkov wrote: post #199
jacurtis wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For comparison Netflix spends about $1.2 Billion dollars per year on AWS (Amazon Web Services). Their total revenue last year was 27.5B. So that means that AWS fees account for 4.3% of Netflix's revenue. AWS is streaming video, operating hundreds of edge location CDN locations, and everything else running on expensive server infrastructure. AWS has real serious costs with offering that service, to the point that Netf…

Maybe this is not a popular opinion but I think that Apple do provide the value. They created the device, the OS, the marketing behind it, the physical stores, all of that. The iPhone is an iconic device because of all the investment Apple put into it. Yes, there are also the millions of developers and apps out there. But the one thing that Apple did right (for me and I guess most iOS users) is that they kept control…

The customer wants convenience, the developer wants to give convenience, and Apple charges 10-30x the going rate of merchant fees for it. And neither the developer nor the customer can pick a different style of convenience. I don't think it can be a free market if customers can't choose another option and developers can't compete with existing options.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#209

Post by edmundsauto »

CPLX wrote: post #190
spywaregorilla wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a silly idea because plenty of companies have high revenue and low profit (or net loss), and are not anti-competitive in the slightest. An arbitrary revenue cap doesn't help the situation at all, as evidenced by the steel company. Disincentivizing growth is... dumb.

Nah. Splitting up ArcelorMittal is a fucking great idea. Our competitive landscape is being absolutely choked by anti-competitive behavior, monopoly, and single point of failure problems in supply chains, labor markets, commodities markets, and everything else. It’s unsafe and bad for society and we should take decisive and aggressive action to stop it. Instead we’re so accustomed to it and dulled into submission by…

I am sympathetic to your argument, but it would be stronger if you didn't project the "why" onto a large group of people. It's pretty clear that the reasons are complex, nuanced, and possibly only a problem at scales most of us never encourage. (I think there are probably also benefits of the large size, e.g. Walmart has completely changed what you can buy for low prices, which has incredible value to many people)

Also, I'm not sure the SPOF problems are a result of anti-competitive behavior - AIUI, it's because JIT delivery between different entities is far more cost effective, and the human brain tends to ignore hidden risks.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#210

Post by ls15 »

JohnBooty wrote: post #187
jacurtis wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For comparison Netflix spends about $1.2 Billion dollars per year on AWS (Amazon Web Services). Their total revenue last year was 27.5B. So that means that AWS fees account for 4.3% of Netflix's revenue. AWS is streaming video, operating hundreds of edge location CDN locations, and everything else running on expensive server infrastructure. AWS has real serious costs with offering that service, to the point that Netf…

Apple by comparison demands 15% which is 3.5x as much of a cut. Apple provides credit card processing, and approval into the App Store (plus according to a comment in this email, it sounds like they keep Netflix in the App Store promotion rotation as "free" ad-space). This isn't anywhere near the value that AWS provides That's debatable. To put it mildly. Apple provides them access to, literally, nearly a billion pot…

> Apple provides them access to, literally, nearly a billion potential customers

Are they providing them access or are the not denying them access?

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