YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#201

Post by BeefWellington » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

silicon2401 wrote: post #133

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

Society in general has been making chilling moves away from free speech, and this has been accelerated by the pandemic. I hope the pendulum will swing the other way, but it's also possible to cross a tipping point where we just lose our way.

It's funny to me because Free Speech is one of those topics on its own that doesn't permit nuance in my experience - either you're for it or you're a dictator/sheep/lapdog/etc.

In reality though, laws have been limiting speech for hundreds of years, and those laws and judgements are enforced by the government. The idea that it is sacrosanct and is (and should "continue" to be) unabated is already not what happens. The usual example is about shouting bomb in an airport or fire in a crowded movie theatre but those are more about mischief than any freedom to say a thing (you aren't punished for the words alone). However, Libel and Slander laws exist and have for a long long time and are limits on free speech.

I'm not in favor of draconian laws designed to chill debate but it's important to recognize that limits already exist and how we navigate where to draw the line is the key I think.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#202

Post by hammock » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

ghuin wrote: post #172

deelowe wrote: post #134

Of course it will. Welcome to the new propaganda. Same as the old propaganda. Free speech is the act of standing up for those who you disagree with simply because you believe they have the right to be heard. In today's world of "woke" content creators, everyone seems to miss this point. What started out as fairly clear cut issues such as racism and homophobia has now bled into grey areas around vaccines and gain of f…

The problem is people who thought there were "clear cut issues". Now there are more issues that are considered clear cut. Disagree? Bad for you.

Related to consolidation and centralization of power

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#203

Post by djent » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

Yes, making claims about vaccines with without basis is "anti-vax"

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#204

Post by kansface » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

the_snooze wrote: post #59

rafaelturk wrote: post #34

As much I condemn anti-vaxxers: “I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”

They still have every right to say what they want. YouTube also has the right not to aid them. This is the information version of "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here."

As if Youtube is any ordinary company. Some day in the future, with little doubt, the censorship shoe will be on the other foot.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#205

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #182

listless wrote: post #174

My wife is very vaccine hesitant, and every time they make a move like this to block content or take it down, it only strengthens her position. She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. The only thing worse than bad ideas is the suppression of bad ideas. It’s tragic that we knew this at some point, but are going to have to figure it all back out again the hard way.

> She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. Hell, I always thought anti-vaxxers were looneys and was first in line for the COVID shot when it was available in March... but even I'm starting to be convinced that the anti-vaxxers might have a point because of all this effort to silence them. I'm becoming vaccine... remorseful?

I am remorseful at this point. By calculation taking the vaccine is sensible. But very closely so in my age group. There is currently a push to vaccinate children which is technically irresponsible since they won't suffer symptoms and would reach a better immunity they will never get with the vaccine. There is a lot of room for critique and much panic about a serious but not too deadly disease.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#206

Post by systemvoltage » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 2:47 PM UTC

silicon2401 wrote: post #133

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

Society in general has been making chilling moves away from free speech, and this has been accelerated by the pandemic. I hope the pendulum will swing the other way, but it's also possible to cross a tipping point where we just lose our way.

I’ll be voting for anyone that advocates civil liberties.

Another thing that is not talked about enough is how small minority of people in Silicon Valley gets to dictate how the rest of the world sees information. Algorithms and things that Big Tech is doing behind the closed doors to influence the world. It doesn’t matter left or right, what matters is the unbelievable power of say 1000 people in SV that figured out content engagement algorithms at Google, Twitter, FB, Apple News, etc.

The most powerful people on earth are those that govern algorithms that preferentially show content to people. In China that’s their Big Tech fused with CCP, in the west it is SV Big Tech shunning anything that’s not woke. FB is an exception but even within FB there is a rout.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#207

Post by raverbashing » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 2:47 PM UTC

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

Try having a "legitimate public debate" about anything where the loudest 90% are there to be antagonistic for purely personal reasons (or, in English, jerks)

Really, about anything. Free software. Best football players. How to best build a bike shed.

Anyone with willingness for legitimate debate gets drowned by the noise.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#208

Post by simonh » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 2:47 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #182

listless wrote: post #174

My wife is very vaccine hesitant, and every time they make a move like this to block content or take it down, it only strengthens her position. She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. The only thing worse than bad ideas is the suppression of bad ideas. It’s tragic that we knew this at some point, but are going to have to figure it all back out again the hard way.

> She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. Hell, I always thought anti-vaxxers were looneys and was first in line for the COVID shot when it was available in March... but even I'm starting to be convinced that the anti-vaxxers might have a point because of all this effort to silence them. I'm becoming vaccine... remorseful?

None of the material that's being pulled would in any way persuade me that getting vaxxed was a mistake. I'm very happy with my choice and highly recommend it. Most of the material being pulled is pernicious conspiracy rubbish, but too much legitimate discussion, some of which has a chance of persuading anti-vaxxers is being hoovered up in the cull.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#209

Post by x86_64Ubuntu » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

mmcdermott wrote: post #121

One of the things that gets lost in the arguments around this sort of censorship (and, before I lose you, it is censorship and that is fine; we all engage in forms of censorship in determining what we will or will not ingest - the danger comes when some third party is acting as the censor for others) is the distinction between legality and morality. Legally, it seems self-evident that YouTube should be permitted to c…

You can't "reverse" the situation in good faith. Facts, science, logic exist on one side of the discussion, not both. So if we are going to reverse the situation, then we have to acknowledge that the original stance is science/logic invariant.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#210

Post by hammock » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

oliwarner wrote: post #185

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

Right to ask, but not without also balancing against the issue of people being utter idiots. A little sensible conversation has lead to tens of thousands of hours doctors talking patients down when they come in demanding anti-parasitic medicines. I don't know what the best balance is. One thing is evident: social media is not the venue for scientific debate.

>anti-parasitic medicines

Protease inhibitors* , similar to the one Pfizer is testing right now for COVID.