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Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

airforcemag.com

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Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#201

Post by dotancohen »

sudosysgen wrote: post #175
marstall wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read its actually very hard to find an aircraft carrier in the open ocean, and even if you have found it, difficult to target because it will be be moving at 30 knots in a zigzag pattern?

That's true for subsonic low altitude missiles yes. For a missile going Mach 7 at 25km altitude, the carrier has no hope of moving enough in the 9 minutes it has to evade the missile. So you only have to find the carrier once briefly, which is not so hard.

Let us assume that at launch the missile had the location of the carrier as provided by satellite one hour ago.

How is the final phase of flight and targeting going to work? How far away can on-board sensors detect the carrier, and does the missile have the maneuverability to steer towards the target in that timeframe?

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#202

Post by dotancohen »

varjag wrote: post #165
throwawaylinux wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not surprising, it just isn't exactly proportionate (well it is by one definition of the word I suppose). That strike would cause China to retaliate against the US homeland, wouldn't it? And the retaliation for that would aim to dismantle China's military and industrial base. If that's the case then I can't see how isolated tactical nukes against carriers makes sense for China. They might as well throw everythin…

I mean, sure: that's what my original point was, it's not just nuking the carrier group. China knows the dynamic, the likely escalation route from that and it knows at the end of it, it lays in radioactive ruin. Nuking is just not an option; even a conventional attack (with much less guarantee of success) is already a pathway to full scale war, just not immediately nuclear.

  > China knows the dynamic, the likely escalation route
There is no likely escalation route. To escalate to full nuclear war requires what we would today call "a crazy man" in power. The US has had exactly one of those in the past 30+ years, and he's no longer in office.

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#203

Post by lumost »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #193
kubanczyk wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I was writing about launch-on-warning posture although I can now see I could have been more clear. As far as I know no country is presently assuming that it is able to detect, interpret, and authoritatively decide to enter full-scale nuclear war within ~25 minutes of enemy ICBMs' launch. (Leaving say ~5 minutes to implement the decision.) What you cited is sad, but firstly it is still an "ongoing debate", and se…

> Yes, I was writing about launch-on-warning posture although I can now see I could have been more clear. As far as I know no country is presently assuming that it is able to detect, interpret, and authoritatively decide to enter full-scale nuclear war within ~25 minutes of enemy ICBMs' launch. (Leaving say ~5 minutes to implement the decision.) Do you have a source for that? The sibling comment says Russia and USA h…

Pretty much this, both sides know that a large surprise attack against the entire triad would be effective. That’s why monitoring of military exercises and other precursors is critical. It’s very hard to kill all nuclear capable aircraft when they are already in the air. Placing all submarines on an alert posture also helps prevent the possibility that they’ve been intercepted. An around the clock war room helps ensure the president makes the decision to launch.

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#204

Post by sudosysgen »

rini17 wrote: post #200
sudosysgen wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not anymore that it is an unshakable fact and it doesn't matter what you think. Go back in 1790 or 1810 and see yourself jailed as a traitor.

Can you restate that? I honestly don't understand.

If you had stated as much in times where the status of NA was actually at stake instead of now when it doesn't matter what you think, the US authorities and US society in general would not have been happy.

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#205

Post by nielsbot »

credit_guy wrote: post #102
nielsbot wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG "The Pentagon’s FY2022 budget request for hypersonic research is $3.8 billion"

Is this a lot? Missiles are quite expensive in general. $3.8 BN is not the budget for this single program, but for several, 8 per this source [1] (although, now it might be 1 or 2 less). For this particular weapon, a somewhat similar weapon I can think of is the European Meteor [2], which is ramjet (rather than scramjet) powered, and reaches Mach 4, rather than over Mach 5 as this one is supposed to do. Meteor comes…

Just saying that's a lot of money in absolute terms. I'd hope that money could be spent in other ways.

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#206

Post by varjag »

dotancohen wrote: post #202
varjag wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, sure: that's what my original point was, it's not just nuking the carrier group. China knows the dynamic, the likely escalation route from that and it knows at the end of it, it lays in radioactive ruin. Nuking is just not an option; even a conventional attack (with much less guarantee of success) is already a pathway to full scale war, just not immediately nuclear.

> China knows the dynamic, the likely escalation route There is no likely escalation route. To escalate to full nuclear war requires what we would today call "a crazy man" in power. The US has had exactly one of those in the past 30+ years, and he's no longer in office.

Oh, that must be why the US famously retaliated to 9/11 by also destroying 3 buildings in Tora-Borah.

If China nukes several thousand U.S. servicemen, your family (and probably you) would be on the streets demanding blood.

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#207

Post by dotancohen »

varjag wrote: post #206
dotancohen wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China knows the dynamic, the likely escalation route There is no likely escalation route. To escalate to full nuclear war requires what we would today call "a crazy man" in power. The US has had exactly one of those in the past 30+ years, and he's no longer in office.

Oh, that must be why the US famously retaliated to 9/11 by also destroying 3 buildings in Tora-Borah. If China nukes several thousand U.S. servicemen, your family (and probably you) would be on the streets demanding blood.

I've never even heard of Tora-Borah, so maybe I'm ignorant.

But for one thing, I wouldn't say that an authority that authorizes the destruction of three buildings would authorize a nuclear strike. For another, destroying three buildings in some village in Afghanistan does not sound like and "escalation" in response to the half dozen or so buildings destroyed in New York on the date you specify, and the damage to the Pentagon, and the loss of four aircraft and all souls on board, and I don't know how many more on the ground.

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#208

Post by varjag »

dotancohen wrote: post #207
varjag wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, that must be why the US famously retaliated to 9/11 by also destroying 3 buildings in Tora-Borah. If China nukes several thousand U.S. servicemen, your family (and probably you) would be on the streets demanding blood.

I've never even heard of Tora-Borah, so maybe I'm ignorant. But for one thing, I wouldn't say that an authority that authorizes the destruction of three buildings would authorize a nuclear strike. For another, destroying three buildings in some village in Afghanistan does not sound like and "escalation" in response to the half dozen or so buildings destroyed in New York on the date you specify, and the damage to the…

Sorry that was irony. My point was precisely that American vengeance knew no bounds. There is zero chance that a nuclear strike on an American asset will not be met in kind.

Re: Hypersonic HAWC missile flies, but details are kept hidden

#209

Post by rini17 »

sudosysgen wrote: post #204
rini17 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you restate that? I honestly don't understand.

If you had stated as much in times where the status of NA was actually at stake instead of now when it doesn't matter what you think, the US authorities and US society in general would not have been happy.

Even in deepest times of such "unhapiness", dissenters were not suddenly vanishing like they do now in China.
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