Live data from Hacker News

What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

ericwbailey.design

201–210 of 236 posts

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#201

This has a lot of good points, but the site it self has a huge distraction: Why is the font so big?

My own recommendation for general web body type in typical English fonts: never go above 20px, and 18px is generally a better upper limit.

The unspoken assumption here is that you're designing for younger people, which is natural as most designers are younger, but that doesn't make it any better a recommendation than "never go below 18px and 20px is a better lower limit".

Surely it depends on your audience and/or those you wish to attract.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the users could edit the text and then the app would take over a text the users agreed upon in majority. It cant be that hard.

Facebook did that early on, no idea if they still do. As a professional software localizer, I was not amused by the resulting translations.

I don't see why as a local user i cant override a crappy translation at least for my account.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

French here, I do the same, French translation are unbearable. Not only will there be tons of small mistakes with nouns/verbs as you mentioned, but maybe worst, there is often "overtranslation". Some words are well established as technical jargon in English, and should _not_ be translated. - "cloud" -> "infonuagique" - "email" -> "courriel" - "freeware" -> "gatuiciel" ...

While I agree that we (fellow Frenchman here) tend to overtranslate, some of our portmanteaus are kind of clever. My personal favourite is illectronisme , a combination of illettrisme (illiteracy) and électronique (electronic), to refer to people who are not good with computers.

My favourite is autof = selfie. It’s auto-photo, but if you pronounce it, it’s photo said backwards — because you use the hold the camera backwards or use the front-facing camera.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is surprising. You really think someone as big as EasyJet would get that right. We're doing a translation now into Japanese and the translator is actually taking the time to look at screenshots and use the app to see the text in context. It makes a huge difference. As you've pointed out, it's one thing to see the string "open" in a XLF file, it's quite another to realize it's intent. This requires setting up dem…

> You really think someone as big as EasyJet would get that right. Well even Apple has a wrong translation on the iOS keyboard in French. The "Return" key is translated as "Retour" (generally meaning "Back" rather than "Carriage return") instead of "Entrée". It might have changed in the last years though, I don't know.

That’s not a mistake.

The English term ‘Return’ refers to a carriage return (on a typewriter, it means to move the carriage back when you’ve reached the edge of the paper).

The French translation of “carriage return” is “retour chariot”, hence the ‘Retour’ key on French keyboards.

In Apple terminology, the Enter key is a completely separate key on the number pad with a different function and has no equivalent on iOS’ on-screen keyboard.

Therefore, the ‘Retour’ translation is appropriate for Apple’s software ecosystem.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#205
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? Having parts of the interface in one language and other parts in another? I'm fluent in multiple languages (as most European devs) and I've never really heard or thought about this concept so I'm intrigued. What kind of software are you referring to that could have this feature?

I'm talking more about the behavior of websites or applications. For example, I'm on macOS. I want the OS GUI to be in English and to use the US keyboard layout, because I'm used to that and buttons/labels aren't a big deal anyway. However, most of my communication with my coworkers (for example, MS Teams) happens in Italian, so I'd prefer those programs to display their UI in Italian (so that everyone using the prog…

You can set per-application language settings in macOS. Go to System Preferences -> Language & Region -> Apps. Click the + button to add an app then choose the language you want.

You can also do this in iOS and iPadOS. Go to Settings, scroll down to the bottom where your app is listed, tap on its settings, then click on Language.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#206
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, often the country and language settings need to be independently modifiable, e.g. for pricing vs. product description.

Agreed. The symbol for pricing could surely be the actual symbol though (€$¥£ etc).

It's not just about the currency, but also the value of the price. To use an example I have on my table right now, German newspapers and magazines usually target Austria and Switzerland as secondary markets and have different prices for each of them. So an issue that's 3.95 € in Germany can be 4.30 € in Austria and 6.30 CHF in Switzerland. Even though Germans and Austrians use the same currency, they don't pay the same price.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't. Flags are not languages. ( http://www.flagsarenotlanguages.com/ ) There are many languages which cannot be clearly distinguished with a flag icon -- for example, there are dozens of languages which could be represented by an Indian flag (Hindi, Bengali, Telugu, Urdu...), and some languages which don't have any clear flag, or whose flag could be politically complicated to display (like Catalan, Romani, o…

lmm may be suggesting the use of flags as iconography only for the button that opens a popup where you can choose a language. That would be somewhat less bad.

Iconography already exists for that. On Windows, it’s a symbol comprising an A and a 文. On Apple systems, it’s a globe icon. I think the globe icon is seen more often on other platforms and on websites. Having the localised language name next to the icon helps, too.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#208
post #133

> A device’s location/IP address isn’t indicative of the language preference of the person using it I really don't understand why this is so popular (google being a major offender). The browser already sends the preferred language(s) as a http header.

Seconded. I'd really love to finally hear from the person at Google that made this decision. There has to be some reason, of all companies I'd trust Google to be both big enough to have a good overview of what it should be (based on complaints, user research, the impact they know this decision has) and engagement testing (since they do a lot of things based on data). Not that I'd know where to complain to, but Google…

I must say, I don’t encounter this issue. I live in New Zealand, you would expect English to default to English. Instead, because I use my computers in French, it defaults to French — even when I log in and tell it (repeatedly) to favour English results.

(Don’t ask why I use my OS in French but want English results; it’s not that interesting) :-)

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My own recommendation for general web body type in typical English fonts: never go above 20px, and 18px is generally a better upper limit.

The unspoken assumption here is that you're designing for younger people, which is natural as most designers are younger, but that doesn't make it any better a recommendation than "never go below 18px and 20px is a better lower limit". Surely it depends on your audience and/or those you wish to attract.

A large part of my recommendation is consistency. For general content sites, it’s not good to be too different from the mean. Font family and size is definitely such a property where you don’t want to deviate too much: twenty years ago, 20px for body type would have been outrageously large; twenty years ago, 11px was definitely on the small side, but not outrageously small as it is now. Conventional sizes have definitely slid upwards, but they’ve peaked in roughly the range 16–20px, and I declare that anything higher than 20px is just too much, pointlessly limiting what you can fit on the screen—any time people go above there, you will see people zooming out because they find it too big.

(And this recommendation is designed for desktop-sized displays; on mobile displays, just use 16px, and certainly don’t go above 18px.)

I am emphatically not assuming designing for younger people; quite the contrary. You will find me saying “don’t go below 16px, you make things harder for many people”. But once you’re in the range 16–18px, going larger just doesn’t help—the people that want to go larger will (or should) already be used to going larger by zooming in, and you’re making life harder for everyone else by preventing the screen from fitting much content at once.

Re: What they don’t tell you when you translate your app

#210
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The actual identifier should be something like “Open a ticket (imperative, button)” Or even better: "ui.ticket.actions.open" — trying to shoehorn linguistic categories into translation files is a painful experience, but dumb specific IDs work great and make untranslated captions apparent.

Or even Create Ticket. From the description, it seems a ticket is being created not opened, despite the slang that people incorrectly use for buttons.

Or you have a list of tickets that you have purchased in the app, and may need to select one from the list to show to the controller.
Post reply on HN