Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate • Hacker News Board

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#201

Post by layoric » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:28 AM UTC

worik wrote: post #92

vncecartersknee wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"blindly letting the government erode our rights" what else are we supposed to do? how do you stop the government from doing that?

Vote. Protest - particularly direct action Challenge them

>Vote.

Compulsory voting with good preference system already in place which means we have a ~90-97% participation rate.

>Protest - particularly direct action

Agree, but increasing using/changing laws to reduce this (declaring environment activists as "terror" groups).

>Challenge them

Not even sure what this means exactly but more people are organizing support for independents/minority parties over the major two. This combined with the ability to form minority governments I think is the best chance for progressive change, but a lot of money is being spent to keep the status quo.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#202

Post by nedwin » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:28 AM UTC

“The problem with Australians is not that so many of them are descended from convicts, but that so many of them are descended from prison officers.” - Clive James

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#203

Post by runako » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:29 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #193

cletus wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm Australian but from the part no one ever visits (ie Perth). I say this because for most visitors Australia = Sydney, maybe Melbourne. Anyway, I've gone to live overseas a couple of times now. The most recent time was to the US 11 years ago. I'm still here. As many problems as the US has, the one big selling point it has is career opportunities and earning potential as a software engineer. Like... it doesn't ev…

> Like when the gay marriage issue was decided even the highly conservative former PM Tony Abbott basically came out and said the matter was settled and it's time to move on. Australia recognized same sex marriage in 2017. That was 3 years after after the USA did. I'm not sure I would call Australia as being progressive by that measure.

(I am not a lawyer.)

The USA recognized same sex marriage in 2015, but we did so via a Supreme Court ruling. The Court's composition has changed since then, and the new Court has signaled a willingness to overturn settled precedents.

While our current detent may persist, I would imagine that an action taken by the Australian Parliament would tend to be more durable.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#204

Post by Nagyman » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:30 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #186

layoric wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Born in AU so bias is to stay, which leads me to push more for political change required to try to address these problems. Most of your 10 years has been under a particularly bad (and honestly corrupt) federal gov. Country has a large state capture problem from largely mining companies but also other special interests that have lobbied and . Anything that might threaten those interests is being pretty heavily targete…

> compulsory voting This always seemed like madness to me. You can force someone to vote, but you cannot force them to vote responsibly. They may just vote "screw you" just for revenge. The right to vote includes the right to abstain from voting when one does not care. Forced voting sounds like a recipe for bad election results. I would expect the same from paying people to vote.

You can just submit a blank ballot.

https://www.quora.com/As-voting-is-compulsory-in-Australia-a...

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#205

Post by api » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:30 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #100

worik wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vote. Protest - particularly direct action Challenge them

In Australia people are compelled to vote, so the problem looks like the majority having a different take. Not that I agree with their votes, but you can’t say they don’t vote. Ultimately what is one supposed to do in a democracy (never mind Australia for a moment) when you’re just not part of the majority opinion on something?

What percentage are property owners? Sounds like it's absolutely fantastic free money if you own property.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#206

Post by dane-pgp » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:30 AM UTC

kylebyproxy wrote: post #112

user123456780 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though people may not be engaged in politics mandatory voting is important. It reduces extremist politics and the constant need to be increasingly divisive. It forces regression to the mean. In non mandatory voting systems the politicians need to motivate people to the polls. The default of the population is apathy so to generate action you appeal to the extremes who are the most likely to act. The more people y…

Compulsory voting in an unengaged populace can only serve to lower signal-to-noise ratio. How many times do we need to relearn "garbage in, garbage out"? The responsible ballot choice when uninformed is "abstain". AFAIA, Australia doesn't provide that option. Also, the intransigent moderates you mentioned create inertia biased toward status quo and inhibits appropriate policy action and change (see e.g. the slow-movi…

> AFAIA, Australia doesn't provide that option.

To be precise, there isn't a specific "Abstain" option on the ballot paper, but it is perfectly legal to leave the ballot blank. After all, if they could trace blank ballots back to the voter to punish them, it wouldn't be a secret ballot.

For context, "informal votes" (i.e. those votes which are rejected at the counting stage) have typically accounted for less than 5% of votes cast, and blank votes were about 20% of the votes cast in the 2001 federal election[0]. That suggests that about 1% of the population is "abstaining" in this way.

[0] https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joi...

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#207

Post by alliao » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:31 AM UTC

CCP is literally cancer on all citizens living in currently free democracy. They show that it's possible to keep a huge population under control with current tools and technology. Our politicians show public disdain, but fuck are they being seduced. And Australia is just stepping into it step by step while asking it's citizens to trust the government because they seem to be at odds with CCP publicly.

As someone who lives in New Zealand, this isn't the democracy we want our closest neighbour turn into.

Please wake up and do something Aussies, take no bullshit, you can do it. Can laugh about it later, but this shit is serious.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#208

Post by api » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

Tronno wrote: post #132

gorwell wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.

> Strong men create good times. Or sometimes they just kill each other in cycles of violence spanning generations. > Good times create weak men. Or they enable amazing things like the internet, modern medicine, and empires that last 1000 years. Sorry, but I've seen this pithy quote before and I wish it would go away - it's simply not true.

Depends a lot on your definition of strong and your definition of good times... which kind of makes it a meaningless bit of cornpone so I agree.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#209

Post by exporectomy » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

lumost wrote: post #136

siquick wrote: post #37

I've lived in Australia for 10 years and really considering my familys future in this country. We are sleep-walking towards a very average future. An undiversified export economy, out of control house prices, a job-market primarily focused on two cities, a government intent on selling all public assets, very limited political interest in positive climate policies. The latter is simply addressed with "technology will…

`It really feels sometimes that the only thing the average Australian cares about is the price of their property portfolio.` If this is the only accessible form of financial gain - why wouldn't they? I strongly suspect that in order to have a dynamic economy a weak housing market is a pre-requisite. Given the choice it's much easier to plunk money down in a house and watch cash magically appear than it is to start a…

Not in Australia but it's been kind of an insult to see my house earning more than the top tax bracket income I've been making from my one-man business for the past 3 years. Sometimes I wonder what the point of trying to earn money with work is. Of course it won't last, but it has a psychological demotivating effect.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#210

Post by c_o_n_v_e_x » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

In the years before covid, as the sole American in a few 'strayan social circles, I'd receive sh*t for Americans protesting about their "rights" and how entitled they are. Now with Covid, Australian citizens can't leave or can't come in (without significant effort).

I've seen a shift in thinking amongst my Australian friends and family. The Australians I know now see value in something like a bill of rights. Like in business, no one pulls out the contract unless things are going to crap.