Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours • Hacker News Board

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#201

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

catsncomputers wrote: post #171

j8hn wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The child poverty rate increased by 10%. I would say that an increase of children living in inhumane conditions is more than an inconvenience.

I can't seem to find anything to verify your 10% claim - all I can find is stats showing that child poverty actually went down.. Are you able to post a source for that? EDIT: since my account has been rate-limited... The msn article below was released before the stats and is purely speculation. The stats before covid already indicate an increase, and NZ has long had fluctuating child poverty rates, which the current…

[deleted]

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#202

Post by fighterpilot » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

hellisothers wrote: post #89

chrisco255 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, it seems to work for the Taliban vs. the most powerful army on earth.

… in a foreign occupied country. Aside from snide remarks is anybody honestly trying to propose that civilians with guns is a deterrent for for anything the government wants to do? You may as well be throwing rocks.

The hypothesis that guns are a deterrent has little to do with the citizenry fighting against the army or the police. It is about the risk of political assassination by a rogue individual every time a politician walks outside. If the leaders start to deviate significantly from the will of the median person, that risk goes up by a lot, hence the deterrent effect. Would Kim Jong Un still be around if every person was armed? Perhaps, but it'd be quite a bit less likely.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#203

Post by swader999 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:55 PM UTC

bserge wrote: post #199

cryptonector wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no defense against a legal power that does not limit itself. States almost-by-definition have total power should they wish to exercise it. Western states generally have limited their exercise of power, and they have structured themselves to make it difficult for one government to obtain and exercise total power. That is now changing.

They've limited themselves because people wanted it (often violently). Now the majority of people are complacent and that's when the "leaders" accumulate power. In Europe for example, complacent with the police taking away the homeless, complacent with the laws slowly eroding everyone's freedoms, complacent with the healthcare systems they pay for believing it helps people. It's the same old tired trope of "first the…

And just because you are comfortable with the current regime having these powers and all knowing insight into your life, it doesn't mean you will be with the next and the next...

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#204

Post by sirmike_ » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:55 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #194

cryptonector wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no defense against a legal power that does not limit itself. States almost-by-definition have total power should they wish to exercise it. Western states generally have limited their exercise of power, and they have structured themselves to make it difficult for one government to obtain and exercise total power. That is now changing.

>There is no defense against a legal power that does not limit itself. Correction: there is no legal defense. There are other defenses, historically.

>There are other defenses, historically.

Indeed. Revolution, rebellion. None of these *have* to be violent per se. The Pax French have handled massive changes in gov without armed conflict in the 20th Century (not counting WWII and Nazis occupation.) It will be very interesting to see how well their democracy will counter this.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#205

Post by dbcurtis » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:56 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #194

cryptonector wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no defense against a legal power that does not limit itself. States almost-by-definition have total power should they wish to exercise it. Western states generally have limited their exercise of power, and they have structured themselves to make it difficult for one government to obtain and exercise total power. That is now changing.

>There is no defense against a legal power that does not limit itself. Correction: there is no legal defense. There are other defenses, historically.

While you are correct, these other defenses are messy and miserable to live through. Let’s hope we find a less bloody path forward.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#206

Post by TameAntelope » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:57 PM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #101

TameAntelope wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always found talking about firearms in response to a legislative body acting to be reactionary and shortsighted, but also a little humorous, in a sad kind of way. I wonder if you realize you're intimating, even obliquely, that you'd be willing to kill cops, soldiers, and democratically elected officials for performing their duties because you individually don't agree with their decisions. In other words, you're…

It’s not about shooting them but rather deterring them from totalitarian government. That our ruling bodies understand there are lines and boundaries.

Yes it is about shooting them, as that's what your deterrent is. Your threat is that you'll murder them if they don't do things you like.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#207

Post by dang » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:57 PM UTC

Recent and related:

Australian Police get online account takeover, data disruption powers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28364140 - Aug 2021 (77 comments)

‘Extraordinary’ hacking powers pass Australian Parliament - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28311722 - Aug 2021 (212 comments)

Australia is becoming a surveillance state - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28139048 - Aug 2021 (423 comments)

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#208

Post by t-writescode » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:57 PM UTC

hughrr wrote: post #57

yakz wrote: post #34

I guess my days as a paying customer of FastMail are coming to an end. I don’t expect to ever become a legitimate target of Australian law enforcement, but there is always abuse.

Well fuck I just moved to Fastmail. Who else is out there? And no I’m not self hosting.

I use Mailbox.org. My only regret is not buying my own domain name for it ahead of time in case Germany started doing things I wasn’t cool with.

I’ve been sufficiently satisfied with their service. Sometimes emails take a bit of time to receive, like 10 or so minutes. That’s about it.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#209

Post by justinjoshuak » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:57 PM UTC

This is an important piece of legislation - however OP doesn't provide the best link (it's a blog post from a company that sells encrypted email service?).

This should be a helpful - it's a list of politician speeches when the bill was debated in parliament.

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary%20Business/Bills%20Legi...

For non-Australians, politicians with (LP) or (LNP) belong to the party in government.

For example, speech by government party member: https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/genpdf/chamber/hansardr...

Speech from opposition party (that still supported the bill):https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/genpdf/chamber/hansards...

Speech from a third party: https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/genpdf/chamber/hansards...

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#210

Post by swader999 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:59 PM UTC

ManBlanket wrote: post #188

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New Zealand's (as you describe it) "extreme lockdown" has worked. When dealing with a pandemic you are supposed to limit potential exposure, and their actions did that. As a result NZ has had one of the lowest infection rates in the world. Also, those actions let them "return to normal" quicker then anywhere else. It worked. Perhaps you feel that the mid-evil practice of nailing the doors and windows shut and posting…

How about averting the easily exploited, "no cost is too great" mentality entirely? If the cost is a disease which kills people smack-dab on the average human lifespan, 99% of which already had a significant confounding disease. We live on an overpopulated planet amidst global ecological collapse. Nobody seems to care about the millions, mostly children under 5, dying of respiratory illnesses caused by pollution or c…

Covid is somewhat better than driving in terms of risk to our younger generations and roughly on par with risk to our older and yet we go full stop for it.