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I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

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Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#201

Post by jjav »

ransom1538 wrote: post #43
Schnitz wrote: post #26

> Rather than asking "Who can we blame?" maybe we could start asking "How do we fix it?" Nobody talks about the hard truth: The homeownership rate in California is ~55% and therefore over half of Californians are heavily incentivized to keep the housing crisis going. For existing homeowners this isn't a crisis, it's a free paper money bonanza. Just by living in their houses home "owners" (most are heavily leveraged)…

You have described why the housing "crisis" will never be solved in CA. The homeowners will vote down every new apartment complex, every new developer plan, every rezone. It will never end, ever. Current home owners will never vote for less money, ever. The only way CA can fix this is by a state wide vote - demanding housing to be allowed. Home owners in CA love new Panera Breads and new Chipotles - tie any new comme…

> The homeowners will vote down every new apartment complex, every new developer plan, every rezone.

Homeowners don't get to vote or have any say on such things. The city planning commission will approve, or not, whatever they will.

In the rare case where a vote is relevant, every resident gets one vote regardless of housing owner or renter status.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#202

Post by actually_a_dog »

ransom1538 wrote: post #43
Schnitz wrote: post #26

> Rather than asking "Who can we blame?" maybe we could start asking "How do we fix it?" Nobody talks about the hard truth: The homeownership rate in California is ~55% and therefore over half of Californians are heavily incentivized to keep the housing crisis going. For existing homeowners this isn't a crisis, it's a free paper money bonanza. Just by living in their houses home "owners" (most are heavily leveraged)…

You have described why the housing "crisis" will never be solved in CA. The homeowners will vote down every new apartment complex, every new developer plan, every rezone. It will never end, ever. Current home owners will never vote for less money, ever. The only way CA can fix this is by a state wide vote - demanding housing to be allowed. Home owners in CA love new Panera Breads and new Chipotles - tie any new comme…

Precisely! I've linked a great article from Vox about how home ownership changes people. In a nutshell, most peoples' largest asset is their home, so they have strong incentives to protect its value. Because the housing crisis is fundamentally a supply crisis, it also causes them to take on a scarcity mindset. This leads to your classic NIMBY behavior, wherein homeowners show up at city council meetings to oppose literally anything going up in their neighborhoods. The end result is that NIMBYism does prop up home values, but, mostly because existing homeowners oppose the building of any more homes in their neighborhoods, thus perpetuating the crisis that caused them to behave this way.

You can read about this, plus some background on relevant research here: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22597947/homeowner-nimby-affor...

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#203

Post by actually_a_dog »

epistasis wrote: post #115
austinheap wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Unhoused” — esp families — are rapidly rehoused in SF. Those experiencing “chronic homelessness” (the ‘visible’ humans, who deserve the same amount of love and respect) are more often tied to mental health…just different things are helpful for the different groups.

Even the chronically homeless with mental health issues benefit greatly from having housing. The key is to make it housing they actually can use, let them have their belongings, their pets foe support, let people come and go as they please so they are not prisoners, and don't force people out of the housing everyday. A lot of the existing housing solutions for the chronically homeless have terrible terrible restricti…

Yeah, you know it's almost like those SROs that basically don't exist anymore actually served a purpose. That type of housing is perfect for getting people off the street and into a warm bed at night, while not imposing very many restrictions on them.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#204

Post by gorgoiler »

ByteJockey wrote: post #171
zebnyc wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you clarify this? Property taxes are what are holding me back from making a bid for a more expensive home. If I buy a home for $1 million, won't I have to pay property taxes based on that price even if it was previously tax assessed at $100k.

Back in the 70s California passed a proposition that limits how much property taxes can increase. [0] As a result of this, if you buy a home and the price goes up afterwards, you won't be paying property taxes on the market price of the house. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13

How is house value estimated?

If it’s based on square feet and some sort of local average square foot price from the last 12 months then fine.

If it’s based on individual assessors deciding your blossoming cherry grove and a charming mid-century atmosphere likely to appeal to young professional couples then… I’d rather the tax be based of the actual price for which the house last changed hands.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#205

Post by MomoXenosaga »

jjav wrote: post #199
Schnitz wrote: post #26

> Rather than asking "Who can we blame?" maybe we could start asking "How do we fix it?" Nobody talks about the hard truth: The homeownership rate in California is ~55% and therefore over half of Californians are heavily incentivized to keep the housing crisis going. For existing homeowners this isn't a crisis, it's a free paper money bonanza. Just by living in their houses home "owners" (most are heavily leveraged)…

> therefore over half of Californians are heavily incentivized to keep the housing crisis going This is a too-frequent HN meme but it doesn't really work that way. There is no special club of homeowners that have more say in what politicians do. Just one vote per person, same as non-homeowners. And turns out homeowners don't spend time thinking about this, let alone scheming to somehow "keep the housing crisis going"…

Technically true but, and this is what makes democracy such a joke, poor people don't vote.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#206

Post by nsonha »

jjav wrote: post #198
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and those 55% wield extremely disproportionate political power. This is why I’m pessimistic that NIMBYs will always rule.

> Yes, and those 55% wield extremely disproportionate political power. House owners don't have any additional political power than renters. Still one vote per person and politicians don't consult homeowners any more often than anyone else.

No one say they do, point is they benefit from not solving housing and has SOME power simply by being a large group. I you believe solving housing is public interest then that's a problem.

Of course you can say when 55% of people are against affordable housing then affordable housing is not public interest.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#207

Post by cyberbanjo »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #75
yarky wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second the op, it's hard to just be homeless when it gets freezing cold. Put differently, if I had to choose a place to be homeless, I'd start by choosing a place with good weather, that's a (hypothetical) fact.

People start where they are. Hitch hiking and train jumping are both very dangerous. It's no simple matter to "choose a place with good weather."

Free bus rides to wherever in the US based on someone else's word over phone call

https://www.streetsheet.org/homeward-bound-program-offers-fr...

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#208

Post by marticode »

issa wrote: post #112
Schnitz wrote: post #26

> Rather than asking "Who can we blame?" maybe we could start asking "How do we fix it?" Nobody talks about the hard truth: The homeownership rate in California is ~55% and therefore over half of Californians are heavily incentivized to keep the housing crisis going. For existing homeowners this isn't a crisis, it's a free paper money bonanza. Just by living in their houses home "owners" (most are heavily leveraged)…

You are assuming that having low income housing somehow impacts the price of higher end housing, and I am not sure that this is true. Would a person with a million dollar house be hurt if we built 100,000 more million dollar houses? Yes. Would that same homeowner be hurt if we built 100,000 cheap rental apartments? It certainly doesn't seem like it. However much property values fall due to less people looking for low…

The market isn't so segmented. If there's a massive availability of cheap rental apartments, there will be less demand for cheap or far away houses, which in turn will reduce their prices, which will in turn reduce demand for million dollar houses. Additionally, land can be divided/merged to turn cheap/expensive houses into expensive/cheap houses.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#209

Post by jjeaff »

gorgoiler wrote: post #204
ByteJockey wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the 70s California passed a proposition that limits how much property taxes can increase. [0] As a result of this, if you buy a home and the price goes up afterwards, you won't be paying property taxes on the market price of the house. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13

How is house value estimated? If it’s based on square feet and some sort of local average square foot price from the last 12 months then fine. If it’s based on individual assessors deciding your blossoming cherry grove and a charming mid-century atmosphere likely to appeal to young professional couples then… I’d rather the tax be based of the actual price for which the house last changed hands.

The assessed value is based on recent sales of similar comps.

If you bought your house for $50k in 1979, of course you want it to be based on the original price. In CA, the assessed value can only go up by 2% a year. But if I buy your house today for $1.2m, then I am going to be paying $1,000/month in property taxes. And if you want to move across town, or even downsize a little to that $800k condo, well, then you are going to lose that low low property tax rate.

Which is one of the reason there is a housing shortage. People don't want to upgrade or downgrade or otherwise sell. They just figure out ways to give it to their children or rent it out and keep the low tax rate locked in.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#210

Post by jjeaff »

jjav wrote: post #198
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and those 55% wield extremely disproportionate political power. This is why I’m pessimistic that NIMBYs will always rule.

> Yes, and those 55% wield extremely disproportionate political power. House owners don't have any additional political power than renters. Still one vote per person and politicians don't consult homeowners any more often than anyone else.

Those homeowners get richer and richer every year. Their borrowing power increases and even as renters are getting gouged by rising rents, homeowners don't even have to worry about their property tax going up. This leads to disproportionate political power.
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