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Unifying iPadOS and macOS

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Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#201

Post by idoh »

rank0 wrote: post #196
adrusi wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just it. The future is very likely most people using iPad-like devices. They will need some kind of keyboard, so I'm not sure it's going to be tablets mostly, but the software will resemble that of smartphones. But no desktop operating systems are well suited to being used primarily by professionals, not even Linux. The desktop paradigm is fine, but it was designed with the idea of making computers more access…

Which “professionals” do not use desktop operating systems?

You can just remote into a terminal if you want a CLI from an iPad.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#202

Post by skydhash »

jonas21 wrote: post #194
_fat_santa wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like a traditional OS will always stick around because of software developers. I couldn't imagine trying to build an iOS app on an iPad, even an iPad Pro with a keyboard. There will always be some more advanced tool that is used to build the tools. Thought it will still be interesting to see where that will go in the next 20 years. Like you said with the convergence of desktop and mobile devices on the one han…

> I couldn't imagine trying to build an iOS app on an iPad, even an iPad Pro with a keyboard. Why not? The only officially-supported way to build iOS apps right now is using Xcode on a Mac. What would be the difference between using the Xcode app on a Mac or the Xcode app on an iPad with a keyboard?

Yesterday, I was debugging some code. I had 3 macvim windows, 3 iterm tabs, firefox and the simulator open. That’s just in one space. The others were general browsing, communication and media. As most as I love my iPad, it only works great for single and focused task (note taking, researching, video meeting, drawing,…)

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#203

Post by rank0 »

adrusi wrote: post #197
rank0 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which “professionals” do not use desktop operating systems?

Well I'm claiming that most future ones will not. There's no reason that smartphone/tablet style OSs couldn't accomodate video editor, graphic designers, writers, salespeople, real estate brokers, etc in the future . And the demand exists, so I'm betting that that'll be our actual future. But they cannot in principle accomodate software developers.

You think people will abandon the mouse and keyboard for a touch based interface?

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#204

Post by KineticLensman »

emodendroket wrote: post #154
zozbot234 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Touch UI items tend to be larger by necessity (and to have surrounding padding as a safety factor, which increases their "effective" size even further), so you don't really need to do the hover thing. Just redesign them to be more self-explanatory as opposed to wasting that space. "Magic swipes" could also be redesigned to be more intuitive, e.g. with some background soft-3D effects that make swipe-sensitive areas "s…

Aren't magic swipes basically the analog to keyboard shortcuts?

Keyboard shortcuts were usually accelerators for easily discoverable menu items. Magic swipes don’t usually have the equivalent of a menu that can be used if you don’t know the swipe

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#205

Post by _ph_ »

TheRealNGenius wrote: post #200
_ph_ wrote: post #98

There is a lot of reason for having different UIs to start with, between a tablet and a laptop or even a desktop computer. Though I think productivity could be better on the iPad in this regard too. But the very basic problem is file handling. It somehow seems to vary across apps. Some have local storage to themselves which is hidden from everyone, some have visible local storage, others support files/iCloud. While f…

True, these things seems intentionally made complicated since they want to push Apple Music/TV subscriptions. If you still haven't figured it out, you can put iTunes music to your iPad. But it requires like ~$20/year subscription called iTunes Match. So yeah, you can't do it for free using their suggested methods.

Well that is the point, I have the Apple Music subscription which includes iTunes Match. So that is, how my music all got into Apple Music in the first place. But later on, it deleted some tracks I cannot add back. At least for years now, I am looking for a way how to do it. The problems only started, after I subscribed to Apple Music.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#206

Post by nextaccountic »

rambambram wrote: post #50
mhuffman wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Drag and drop HW drivers, or similar, in a cloud IDE? I'm skeptical. Perhaps you are thinking too "now". In the future why would you personally need hardware drivers? Any hardware that you subscribe to (ownership will be a thing of the past) would have factory-installed drivers constantly updated from the few reified "real" programmers that work for a few dozen mega-corporations. For that matter, I could imagine a f…

I just finished reading two articles from Agre and your comments literally make my head hurt now. I'm sorry.

Agre?

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#207

Post by dmvjjvmd »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #111

I've written about this before, in "The Mac and the iPad aren't meeting in the middle yet": https://micro.coyotetracks.org/2021/04/21/the-mac-and.html While I won't repeat myself too much, my basic point is that Apple sees iOS (and iPadOS) devices as application consoles and Macs as general purpose computers, and there is no good business case for changing that any time soon. The Venn diagram of "users likely to walk…

It's vanishingly rare for me to read someone's comment that starts with a link to their own blog and then to think, "I should see what else this person has written." Well done, you.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#208

Post by GeekyBear »

jonas21 wrote: post #194
_fat_santa wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like a traditional OS will always stick around because of software developers. I couldn't imagine trying to build an iOS app on an iPad, even an iPad Pro with a keyboard. There will always be some more advanced tool that is used to build the tools. Thought it will still be interesting to see where that will go in the next 20 years. Like you said with the convergence of desktop and mobile devices on the one han…

> I couldn't imagine trying to build an iOS app on an iPad, even an iPad Pro with a keyboard. Why not? The only officially-supported way to build iOS apps right now is using Xcode on a Mac. What would be the difference between using the Xcode app on a Mac or the Xcode app on an iPad with a keyboard?

The sheer number of on-screen controls in a single professional app Window present a problem when you have to make them all large enough to be a touch target.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#209

Post by GeekyBear »

diegof79 wrote: post #190
adrusi wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call smalltalk systems part of the same paradigm as mainstream desktops, although if historians call them both desktops then we can use that name for both. I think we can do better than squeak/pharo, but they're fine, really. They're at least the kind of thing I'm talking about.

> I wouldn't call smalltalk systems part of the same paradigm as mainstream desktops Yes, Windows and Mac copied the WIMP UI. But, they ignored the composable message passing architecture. The goal of Smalltalk was to make a computing environment with a GUI, the programming language was like C to Unix. During the 9x-2000 there was a lot of hype on providing the same system composition capabilities in Windows and Mac:…

> During the 9x-2000 there was a lot of hype on providing the same system composition capabilities in Windows and Mac: ActiveX, Windows Scripting Host, AppleScript, etc. But, these things are dying.

iOS and MacOS are both converging on Shortcuts to accomplish this.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#210

Post by rewgs »

np_tedious wrote: post #40
grey-area wrote: post #26

IOS will replace Mac OS, the writing has been on the wall for a while now, iOS is where the money comes in and where most usage is, and maintaining dual development apis is painful and costly. Apple doesn’t need to rush this process, but it is inevitable IMO, and is foreshadowed by actions like allowing iOS apps to run on macOS, moving Mac OS closer in UI to mobile, adding essentials like file handling to the mobile…

Hmm. Seems likely in a way, but I don't see how to square this with the professional crowd like software devs

The appearance of a trend does not guarantee the continuation of that trend to its logical extreme.

I'd argue that they're just doing the obvious: refining and maturing iPadOS, and unifying the vibe of all their products. This makes sense. Just as one band influencing another doesn't mean that the two bands will eventually converge into an amorphous blob, two products by the same company influencing one another doesn't mean that the two will become a single product.

I'd just take Apple's word for it that they've maintained all along: they're letting the device do its thing as best it can. If iOS were swallowing everything, then why did iPadOS split out into its own thing? People don't give enough credence to the fact that these platforms are splitting just as much as they're merging.

Also, even if all devices were going the way of "dumbed-down iOS," someone still needs to develop for it, and you best believe that Apple won't loosen their grip on that segment. Just as Mac Pros are loss leaders just to keep the creative class, macOS devices in general will stick around, hell or high water, just to retain the developer class.

I for one welcome the iPadOS-ification of macOS, the macOS-ification of iPadOS, and so on. They're just allowing the products to slowly evolve and (ideally) be the best version of what their interface dictates, just as they've always done and always said they're doing.

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