Live data from Hacker News

The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

techcrunch.com

201–210 of 243 posts

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conveniently, you fail to address the point upon which this whole issue is predicated: " You can't talk to guests until the transaction is consummated. If that's so, it's on Airbnb to make sure that they're not sending a dangerous creep into your arms." No one thinks anyone from Airbnb blew up her home, dude. I'm not paid well enough to know if this meets the standard of tortious negligence. Yet it was negligence. Ha…

Well, you haven’t addressed any of my points, but that’s fine. To answer your question, just because the transaction was consummated doesn’t mean she had to let the guy into her house. If the dude was suspicious or ungoogleable, she could have called Airbnb and explained the situation or she could have simply not left her key. Instead she just got on an airplane without thinking about it. That’s not Airbnb’s fault. A…

I think you're both right. Like most major crises, this one occurred as a result of not one "bug," but two or more bugs occurring simultaneously.

The first "bug" arises from the fact that AirBnB is much like a pay-for-play dating service, with all of the flaws of that business model. They have to control communication between the parties to keep from being cut out of the revenue loop... which means that they indisputably need to accept some responsibility for conducting the due diligence that they forbid their users to conduct. That's expensive and risky at best, but if they don't step up to the responsibility -- which they don't -- then they don't deserve to succeed. A stolen credit card should not be enough to gain access to someone's home for a week. Cases like this provide the necessary publicity to call attention to the unfair bargain they offer hosts.

The second 'bug' was the almost unbelievable naivete on the part of the host. She was, or should have been, aware of the terms of AirBnB's service and the limitations of their liability, because she would have had to agree to those terms and limitations when she signed up. It shouldn't take a law degree to understand that AirBnB's terms are ridiculously inadequate when situations like this arise. The idea of turning over the keys to your home to someone you've never met, based on the inadequate assurances and warranties offered by AirBnB, sinks to the level of incompetence IMHO. Not everyone will agree, but come on... if what she did isn't "asking for it," then there's no such thing as "asking for it."

To me, it seems clear that the responsibility for allowing this incident to happen falls on the host's shoulders... but at the same time, AirBnB should not be lauded for trying to play it both ways. If they're going to do everything they can to prevent hosts and renters from doing ordinary due diligence on each other, then they also need to stand behind their decisionmaking process when they approve a renter. I think a mandatory insurance policy has got to be part of the answer, just as common sense on the host's part is also a requirement.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing my point— "Fraud detection" in Airbnb's case means "ensuring that owners and renters are who they say they are." Surely that should already be a primary focus of theirs.

Why? And How? Are they going to require faxing in photocopies of ID? Run credit checks? All this would do is to verify that a person with this information exists. This wouldn't stop a bad guy from using someone else's identification to register, and none of this addresses whether the renter has the legal right to rent the property. And, once they are that deep in the process, if Airbnb is making any representations t…

All I'm saying is that the due diligence to prevent fraud is the same as the due diligence to ensure somebody won't burn down my house for fun. Whether or not they can meet the standard, that's what they should be doing.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#203
post #49

The only blessing in this story is that the miscreants made their damage so plainly obvious that the problems were identified quite quickly. If they'd been a bit more subtle and a little patient, they could've engaged in massive identity theft and financial fraud without ever making it clear that AirBNB was the attack vector.

The only blessing is that the person renting the property did not return early. If she had and had caught the renters in the act, who knows what would have happened.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#204

"I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages, they say, and they do not insure against losses. They are helping police track down the person who did this, but their help ends there." ... Fuck. That. I don't care what the long-term implications are, I don't care about precedent, I don't care about policy, I don't care about cost . If my business does this to someone I make it right . E…

> Update (from Tech Crunch): I spoke with Brian Chesky. He says the company has offered “to assist financially, find new housing for the host, and anything else she can think of to make her life easier.” He says they intend to “go above and beyond” to make the situation right for her.

Good man.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#205
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will ask my lawyer girlfriend this question (IANAL), but based on previous conversations I've had with her, my bet would be that any reimbursement could be construed as an admission of guilt/liability, and could be used as evidence in a civil trial. (Consider the extra costs of a trial alone, plus the possibility of punitive damages for pain & suffering and whatnot if they lose.)

Your lawyer girlfriend would probably say that offers for settlement or reimbursement are usually not admissible as evidence of guilt. I think the bigger problem is that if they reimburse this person they can set up an expectation that everyone will get reimbursed for damages to their home, and they cannot afford that.

Yes, correct. She said that it wouldn't constitute an admission of liability, just a bad precedent that could easily be abused.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#206
I am relieved that this individual is alright. Just imagine if she had returned home early and decided to check in or something and found the individuals in the act. Who knows what the reaction would be. I'm happy it's (mostly) just things that have been lost. What if she would have returned early and been murdered for witnessing something she wasn't supposed to? It seems like airbnb has a huge exposure here and if this woman doesn't attempt to cash out on airbnb, i would expect to see a case where that does happen. They are a very ripe target.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#207
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone followed this rule, there would be very little innovation, none of it disruptive.

I found this very glib, while we may mock insurance for certain things there are professionals in that industry. If an insurance company specialising in unconventional insurance don't think they can make money out of a premium, that does actually say something pretty insightful about the risk you're taking.

The professionals in the insurance industry specialize in estimating the risk associated with any endeavor. Innovation, especially disruptive innovation, is extremely risky in the beginning and is almost always perceived to be riskier than it is. This does not mean that it will stay risky forever and perceptions certainly change. Innovations that go mainstream become progressively less risky.

If you'd like a specific example, consider that insurance companies in 48 states can and will likely cancel insurance policies of anyone who rents their car to another individual, even if they hold a separate insurance policy to cover it[1]. This means that the tens of millions of cars sitting in garages would never be shared even if a startup decided to insure those doing peer to peer sharing.

GetAround, which won the TechCrunch Disrupt audience prize last year, or RelayRides which does the same thing, would never have started if they followed this rule. It's a bit early to claim that they have changed the world for the better, but I am optimistic they will.

I think what I said may be somewhat pithy but I certainly wasn't being glib.

[1] http://travel.usatoday.com/news/2011-06-17-personal-car-shar...

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#208
Maybe it is because I live in a 3rd world country where we dont have enough security (Brazil), but I would never think about renting my place to a complete stranger. I would think a lot to rent it even after a lot of interview and research, but I would remove all personal and expensive objects.

That said, I feel really bad for the girl and I hope she recovers. Most people are good, but there are a big number of bad people around to justify some level of security concern.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you haven’t addressed any of my points, but that’s fine. To answer your question, just because the transaction was consummated doesn’t mean she had to let the guy into her house. If the dude was suspicious or ungoogleable, she could have called Airbnb and explained the situation or she could have simply not left her key. Instead she just got on an airplane without thinking about it. That’s not Airbnb’s fault. A…

I think you're both right. Like most major crises, this one occurred as a result of not one "bug," but two or more bugs occurring simultaneously. The first "bug" arises from the fact that AirBnB is much like a pay-for-play dating service, with all of the flaws of that business model. They have to control communication between the parties to keep from being cut out of the revenue loop... which means that they indisput…

This. I definitely think this entire situation calls into question the feasibility of Airbnb’s continued success and their business model in general. They’ll need to find some way to address these problems to maintain confidence in the site, and as the site’s audience grows it may not even be possible to do so.

I don’t dispute any of these things—my only real point was that it’s completely off-base to call Airbnb immoral for not compensating the woman.

Post reply on HN