Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 372 posts

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#201

Post by ianmiers »

zepto wrote: post #188
ianmiers wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. That certainly is the next step. And then, once you are scanning encrypted data, iMessage is next whether you want it or not.

> And then, once you are scanning encrypted data, They aren’t. > iMessage is next whether you want it or not. Is there some evidence you have of this plan? Sounds like this is just a fear you have.

>Is there some evidence you have of this plan? Sounds like this is just a fear you have.

The EARN IT act. It may not be Apple's plan, Apple's plan, as you suggest, might only be for doing scanning on encrypted iCloud and excluding encrypted iMessage. But what Apple will be pushed to do after that is pretty clear.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#202

Post by hughrr »

cultofmetatron wrote: post #180
hughrr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s too late either way. The fact that it even got this far through implementation says the vendor is not on my side. Not only that once capability is revealed it can be required by governments and manipulated under warrant. Particularly in some regimes, mine included, the vendor can be compelled to do something and not say anything. My comment doesn’t even cover how monumentally flawed the entire thing is either. S…

get the z5. I got it a month ago, its smaller and lighter than a dslr and the image quality has been excellent. heres my photo gallery all shot with the z5 https://www.flickr.com/photos/193526747@N04/

That’s actually what I’m looking at so far. Thanks for the gallery link - some nice shots in there

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#203

Post by ryanlol »

zepto wrote: post #183
ryanlol wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any company storing images on their infrastructure in the US must report pedophilic images to the US government Ones they know of… > What other technical approach are people advocating for? Apple already has a technical solution, encryption.

> Apple already has a technical solution, encryption. How does encryption help prevent porn being sent to pre-teens?

That’s a completely different feature than the one we’re discussing. These things were announced together, but they are not the same.

Nobody is objecting to opt-in clientside content filtering.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#204

Post by read_if_gay_ »

dwighttk wrote: post #48
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this technology is that easily circumvented then why is there an expectation that it will be effective at all?

It isn’t being circumvented. It is intended to work on photos that are uploaded to iCloud. If you don’t use that (via turning it off or via selling everything Apple and switching to Linux) then you aren’t using it.

No. The intent is not that it works on iCloud. The intent is catching pedos.

This is obviously not effective given that you can get around it that easily if you want to. Coincidentally though, it will be totally effective at surveilling the 99.999% that are normal users and won’t go out of their way to disable iCloud. The whole CP thing is such an obvious farce.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#205

Post by adventured »

caymanjim wrote: post #126
JeremyNT wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you trust Apple to install this spyware and only use it in the way they currently describe. Great! But what happens the second they get an order from $GOVERNMENT that tells them to use the spyware to also look at other documents on the device? I think it's pretty obvious what Apple will say. They'll say "OK." They have no plausible deniability to tell $GOVERNMENT to go pound sand - they have demonstrated the capa…

They could have done what you describe at any time in history. This doesn't change anything in that regard. Either you trust Apple enough to use their products or you don't.

> They could have done what you describe at any time in history.

That doesn't make sense. The issue is that Apple is very publicly signaling they are changing their approach to privacy now. Companies change approaches to any number of things all the time, they're not static entities. As such you have to evaluate their nature as a consumer on an ongoing basis, not one time forever. It's true of food, it's true of consumer electronics, it's true of general product or service quality, it's true of privacy issues or censorship, and so on. Apple even knew the consequences ahead of time - per the insider notes - and don't care, they charged ahead regardless.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#206

Post by hef19898 »

zepto wrote: post #186
hef19898 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we all now that these governments stop carrying about their citizens at the border. Not.

Are you claiming that China will force Apple to scan the phones of US citizens now?

Not necessarily, but I jave no reason to believe China, Saudi, Turkey, the UAE or other countries with some kind of leverage won't try. Especially with their own citizens living abroad.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#207

Post by gigel82 »

throwaway75 wrote: post #107

Sometimes there are more important things than maintaining individual privacy and this is clearly one of them. Finding and protecting even a few children from becoming victims of pornography is clearly something that is well worth my not having 100% privacy. Even knowing that there might be false alarms. Despite what the strident discourse has been, individual privacy is not some sancrosanct idea that cannot ever be…

Politicians love this guy ^ ; that's the way to right-think citizen, carry on :)

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#208

Post by kemayo »

mandeepj wrote: post #192
tchalla wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't use iCloud Photo Library or sync photos to the iCloud, none of this will apply to you. https://daringfireball.net/2021/08/apple_child_safety_initia...

> If you don't use iCloud Photo Library or sync photos to the iCloud, none of this will apply to you. Not true. They will be scanning your messages also for inappropriate content - https://www.apple.com/child-safety/

That's also opt-in, though it's opted in by the parent of the child you're communicating with.

If you're talking to adults, or children whose parents don't want to use the service, you're not getting your photos scanned.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#209

Post by croutonwagon »

jeromegv wrote: post #173
croutonwagon wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well..... I think its more than that. images sent with iMessage are stored in iCloud, even if the device is not necessarily uploading. How else would that have such warnings they claim in their announcement. [1] And we have seen these systems have their scope/use case changed in the past [2] To the point in the other discussion [3]. OP stated that Apples plans to scan and then upload suspected images are illegal. But…

Stop repeating this lie. iMessages photos are not part of this. This is written in the technical document. This is only photos from iCloud photos. It's been debunked, just read this article: https://daringfireball.net/2021/08/apple_child_safety_initia... And of course the scope could change tomorrow. Just like the scope of Android could change tomorrow. They could even have changed the scope without doing an announce…

So there is really no need to be this aggressive.

In my comment history it clearly shows that there's an effort to parse through the information and seek clarity.

And its worth noting that iMessage data is and can be backed up to iCloud, and not just using backups. For many with multiple devices this is specifically useful.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208532

Further, as to this

>And of course the scope could change tomorrow. Just like the scope of Android could change tomorrow. They could even have changed the scope without doing an announcement!

I am pointing out that there is a specific history of this already on record and documented. And their technical documents specifically state their intentions.

Page 3 : https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_...

"This program is ambitious, and protecting children is an important responsibility. Our efforts will evolve and expand over time"

I don't understand why you find such an observation so offensive. Its pretty clear Apple sees this as a first step into what will eventually be a much larger program.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#210

Post by hef19898 »

zepto wrote: post #178
hef19898 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because once that functionality is there it affects everyone, not just in the US. And it basically means we sell out our democratic principles, or rather allow our tech giants to sell it out. Or force them to do it, like our elected governments doing it. Either way, I don't like the outcome.

> Because once that functionality is there it affects everyone, not just in the US. The functionality to detect CSAM uploaded to Apple’s servers or sent to pre-teens? > And it basically means we sell out our democratic principles What democratic principle is being sold out?

The right to secret communication. The right of not being under surveillance. The government cannot open letters without a warrant, but somehow Apple, Google, MS and co can sniff through electronic communication as they see fit because of a clause in an EULA. No idea how came there, but maybe the days when Stasi surveillance was the poster child of government intrusion into private life are too long gone to be remembered. Or they aren't and certain people choose to make shit load of money from the thing.
Post reply on HN