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iDOS 2 will be gone soon

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Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#201

Post by andrewl-hn »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #177
verytrivial wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: Android, I tried to log out of YouTube on my phone yesterday. It said "Sure, as long as you don't mind logging out of GMail too." I was taken aback by this -- I didn't realise this was a hostage situation.

Yes, Google is using Gmail specifically for this purpose. Once you use Gmail on an Android device, it installs a Google account with all its consequences like getting the list of all your contacts, tracking you in Google apps and so on. For that reason I tried several alternative apps that don't involve adding a Google account to my device, but they were less comfortable to use - specifically, the search function was…

If you use 3rd part clients for Google services - YT, Gmail, Calendar, etc. and run non-Chrome browser (Firefox is very good on Android, and supports many extensions) you can largely avoid Google. However, Play and Location sharing are much harder to block.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#202

Post by sersi »

megous wrote: post #154
realusername wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When now you have banks & governement apps, I'd say that falls down under the definition of required / public infrastructure.

The only thing I wasn't able to do without so far is SMS 2nd factor. Dumbphone is enough for that. I don't mind if banks/govs require use of some protocol. But forcing use of specific apps goes against past achievements to make public institutions use open formats and protocols, so I reject that where possible, or complain. It should not be acceptable. I still remember times when people had to pirate MS office to be…

My banks no longer allow SMS 2fa. The only 2fa available are those through their mobile app. So without android or iOS banking will quickly become impossible.

And I wish I could just switch banks but in some situation it's not possible and in the country I currently live in, it seems that now no banks support 2fa SMS for any transaction above a tiny amount anyway.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#203

Post by swiley »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #151

It's quite bizarre that Apple just released an iPad Pro with a CPU that is more powerful than the desktop CPU in my workstation, but then cripples the device by severely restricting what kind of software you can run on it. I mainly use Linux but was looking for a secondary laptop/tablet hybrid for my office needs. I considered getting an iPad but ultimately went for a Surface Pro, which was the right choice I think.…

This. Everyone grumps about the Pinephone having a slow CPU but it outruns the iPhone for most things I do because the iPhone ha to run anything usefull in an interpreter.

Also there are lots of old apps that have found homes on Linux (like gEDA) that don't run on iOS because Apple makes things so hard.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#204

Post by mhh__ »

phist_mcgee wrote: post #111
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Apple needs a pool of talented developers to build apps on their platform. And to hire from.

The noughties dream of 'digital natives' has not ever come to fruition. Children growing up around technology has not brought great understanding of computing/creating software, instead it has driven a race to the bottom for passive apps, with predatory attention grabbing mechanics.

Young people today have grown up post computer. Evening owning a desktop is rare for non-gamers.

Most people I know have no mechanical sympathy for the computer nor ability to turn it off.

My (now passed away) Grandmother had better (but not great) than a lot of my-aged people I've explained things to - and thanks to basic on the BBC micro a long way back, way better abilities in terms of actually making the computer do what you want.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#205

Post by nyanpasu64 »

verytrivial wrote: post #158
nicolas_t wrote: post #112

The mobile landscape presents a very difficult choice. Choose Android, get actual access to your device and install what you want but have your privacy completely trampled upon by Google Choose Apple, get marginally better privacy but no ownership of your phone and no possibility to install what you want. I wish we had a reasonable alternative, it's so frustrating to have to choose between two bad alternatives and th…

Re: Android, I tried to log out of YouTube on my phone yesterday. It said "Sure, as long as you don't mind logging out of GMail too." I was taken aback by this -- I didn't realise this was a hostage situation.

You could try using Island or similar to create a "work profile", and only log into Google and install Gmail (or Drive or whatnot) in the work profile. This way, apps running in the regular profile don't see your Google account.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#206

Post by mhh__ »

heavyset_go wrote: post #25
yoavm wrote: post #7

Honest question - what do iOS users do in such situations? I'm using Android and we can always install things from outside the store, or even from alternative stores (eg. F-Droid). Is there any similar solution? If the app is open-source, can you at least build it yourself and sideload it as if you are the developer and you're testing your app? What solutions are there?

They rationalize no longer being able to do something they used to be able to do, for no real practical or technical reason, as actually being a good thing.

Hence the newspeak of "sideloading" being accepted as opposed to recognizing it as a frankly outrageous and capricious policy designed to encourage an unknowing and comatose userbase.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#207

Post by qalmakka »

ubermonkey wrote: post #200
qalmakka wrote: post #175

I hope Apple will be punished for their behaviour. I could ideally understand them reserving the power to decide what gets uploaded and what doesn't on their stores, but then they must allow sideloading. People paid good money for their phones, and so they must be free to use them as they see fit. To me this sounds like buying a car that's restricted from entering Germany or buying a fruit processor that forbids you…

I very much hope not. If you don't like the way Apple does business, feel free to buy from someone else. They are a minority player in the marketplace by a significant margin; getting all upset about how they manage their platform is a weird, weird look.

That's the very reason I've been buying from "someone else" for almost a decade. Still, in certain markets they are not a "minor" player, and even then that still doesn't give them an excuse to abuse the position. Yes, they are a minor player compared to the WHOLE market, but if you compare only the segments they actually put the effor to compete in, they have quite a large slice and they rake in more profit than anyone else from it. You can't reasonably use under-$200 phones to justify the fact Apple doesn't have a monopoly when they refuse to enter that segment. You may even argue that if that's a valid argument they would never want to sell cheap phones in the first place, and that market share isn't a good metric for anything.

I don't see why the option to sideload stuff onto the iPhone you've bought would make the platform less secure, especially if it is disabled by default and requires explicit user consent to be turned on.

Also, their focus on "security" has always felt very phony to me, as much as their focus on "standards" always basically meant they only evangelized for interoperability when it suited their interests. What they have been doing with iMessage in the USA is the epitome of abusing your market position, but I guess the FTC doesn't really care about that.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#208

Post by andrewl-hn »

the_gipsy wrote: post #195
newscracker wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of your points. > Choose Apple, get marginally better privacy I disagree with the word “marginally” here. Compared to Android, it’s far better and keeps staying ahead (while Android may try to catch up for certain features and controls).

Privacy is actually behind on Apple, as long as they 1) don’t allow proper adblocking and 2) actively boicot webapps in favour of installed apps that can spy much more efectively

They allow VPN and DNS-based blockers, request interceptors in Safari (so-called Content Blockers) and are adding support for WebExtensions to Safari in next iOS release. Plus there are 3rd-party browsers with build-in content blockers, like Brave and Firefox Focus. Safari itself is doing clever stuff with Tracking Protection (https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention/).

All apps I run use SafariViewController for in-app web browsing, so the same ad blocking systems kick in, too, and the app itself has very limited capabilities to track our web activity. Facebook is sole notable exception.

They also added "App Tracking" prompt recently. I doesn't do much for technical standpoint (like DNT header in browsers), but Apple _can_ enforce it via app publishing restrictions - only if they choose to do so.

I'd say they are very close to Android or desktop macOS.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#209

Post by als0 »

swiley wrote: post #203
ThePhysicist wrote: post #151

It's quite bizarre that Apple just released an iPad Pro with a CPU that is more powerful than the desktop CPU in my workstation, but then cripples the device by severely restricting what kind of software you can run on it. I mainly use Linux but was looking for a secondary laptop/tablet hybrid for my office needs. I considered getting an iPad but ultimately went for a Surface Pro, which was the right choice I think.…

This. Everyone grumps about the Pinephone having a slow CPU but it outruns the iPhone for most things I do because the iPhone ha to run anything usefull in an interpreter. Also there are lots of old apps that have found homes on Linux (like gEDA) that don't run on iOS because Apple makes things so hard.

> because the iPhone ha to run anything usefull in an interpreter.

What do you mean? Unlike Android, most apps on iPhone are native code.

Re: iDOS 2 will be gone soon

#210

Post by swiley »

newscracker wrote: post #185
donkarma wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you need a phone?

Valid question, but having a phone and a phone number is increasingly becoming a basic necessity to participate in society and to interact with the governments. I wish it could be optional.

>phone and phone number

My ISP still provides (very low quality) landline service for a fraction of my monthly phone bill. The UI on that phone is awesome: just a speaker and dialpad, no display at all.

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