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Our lawsuit against ChessBase

stockfishchess.org

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Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#201

Post by wombosombos »

jeremyjh wrote: post #110
chaosmachine wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like Listudy for drills, it imports from Lichess studies (which you can create from PGNs): https://listudy.org/ Also Opening Tree for bulk analysis: https://www.openingtree.com/ They're both free and open source.

Opening Tree is great and I use it a lot but it does not persist my games - I have to download them every time I use it. But I'd love an app with that interface that could persist the data and cross-check it with my repertoire. I guess it would not have to be same tool as the repertoire trainer, it just seems cleaner to have it all in one tool. But you are right Listudy can help with the spaced repetition, it just do…

Opening Tree also is opensource, you could modify it to run on local data and then build and run it on your computer:

https://github.com/openingtree/openingtree

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#202

Post by daxcurzon »

saurik wrote: post #200
encryptluks2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I filed a lawsuit against someone who is using the money they stole frome to defend themselves. Basically if I win the money I get will be essentially gone and the Defendant will not have the means to pay anything back.

I feel like you are supposed to be able to get an injunction against this, but in practice it is probably stupid hard :(.

They took out a mortgage after being served but before they ever got in a court room. The law is so slow here that it could've taken years just to settle that issue. Probably easier to address post victory.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#203

Post by cycomanic »

daxcurzon wrote: post #202
saurik wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you are supposed to be able to get an injunction against this, but in practice it is probably stupid hard :(.

They took out a mortgage after being served but before they ever got in a court room. The law is so slow here that it could've taken years just to settle that issue. Probably easier to address post victory.

Isn't it in the duty of care of the bank to make sure that the property they give a mortgage on is actually owned by the mortgagee?

I would assume that you should get the land and the bank can then sue the brothers to get their money back. Why should the mortgage be transfered to the original owners, they never agreed to it.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#204

Post by cycomanic »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #140
germanier wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In German court proceedings you can only recover attorney fees up to the (pretty low) legal fee schedule (RVG). Anything above that you will have to pay yourselves

GP’s joke, I suspect, was that in practice every bit of money they get from the lawsuit, whether it is labeled “attorney fees” or not, is likely to go towards compensating the legal team, and not to the actual injured party. Which does not contradict your statement. (Part of the point of having a legal fee schedule is, I suppose, to put a damper on the prices of legal help, because, like in medicine, the demand is ot…

Note that Germany generally has a loser pays system (there are some caveats), so this will definitely not be true, because they can recover the legal costs from Chessbase.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#205

Post by erfgh »

Lordarminius wrote: post #194

> Thus, to enforce the consequences of the license termination, we have filed a lawsuit... We believe we have the evidence, the financial means and the determination to bring this lawsuit to a successful end. The part about financial means stood out for me. All societies should work harder to ensure that money is not an impediment to obtaining justice.

"Work harder" does not mean much though. It's an empty saying.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#206

Post by lmm »

elmo2you wrote: post #83
wiz21c wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stockfish has an opportunity to make money here. No?

I'm definitely not a lawyer/expert on this, even less about Germany specifically, but isn't actual financial damage required for financial compensation? While Stockfish might have suffered damage from ChessBase's behavior, if it can't be clearly specified as monetary damage, I don't really see how they could make money from this. On the other hand, if ChessBase is found (and ruled) to have distributed software illega…

> I'm definitely not a lawyer/expert on this, even less about Germany specifically, but isn't actual financial damage required for financial compensation? While Stockfish might have suffered damage from ChessBase's behavior, if it can't be clearly specified as monetary damage, I don't really see how they could make money from this.

In the US there are statutory damages for copyright infringement ($50k per act of infringement, tripled if wilful) so you're entitled to that much without having to prove any actual damages.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#207

Post by remus »

daxcurzon wrote: post #199
encryptluks2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I filed a lawsuit against someone who is using the money they stole frome to defend themselves. Basically if I win the money I get will be essentially gone and the Defendant will not have the means to pay anything back.

This is how it works in Czech Republic. Two brothers defrauded the government by forging signatures of the owners and notaries for the transfer of property deeds and took several hundred thousand Euros worth of land from various people. My friend's family has been in court for 10 years trying to get it back. The brothers mortgaged the properties to pay for litigation. The real shit sandwich is that one brother died,…

Im amazed they found a bank who would provide a mortgage against a property that was part of a legal dispute over ownership.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#208

Post by Xylakant »

cycomanic wrote: post #204
mananaysiempre wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP’s joke, I suspect, was that in practice every bit of money they get from the lawsuit, whether it is labeled “attorney fees” or not, is likely to go towards compensating the legal team, and not to the actual injured party. Which does not contradict your statement. (Part of the point of having a legal fee schedule is, I suppose, to put a damper on the prices of legal help, because, like in medicine, the demand is ot…

Note that Germany generally has a loser pays system (there are some caveats), so this will definitely not be true, because they can recover the legal costs from Chessbase.

(Simplifying:) Fees are set by law and derived from the value/damages they’re suing over (Streitwert). The winner can recover the costs up to that fee. However, attorneys can charge more, that difference is on the party that hired the attorney.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#209

Post by gog »

daxcurzon wrote: post #199
encryptluks2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I filed a lawsuit against someone who is using the money they stole frome to defend themselves. Basically if I win the money I get will be essentially gone and the Defendant will not have the means to pay anything back.

This is how it works in Czech Republic. Two brothers defrauded the government by forging signatures of the owners and notaries for the transfer of property deeds and took several hundred thousand Euros worth of land from various people. My friend's family has been in court for 10 years trying to get it back. The brothers mortgaged the properties to pay for litigation. The real shit sandwich is that one brother died,…

If they win, most of the lawyer fees will be paid by the losing party.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#210

Post by michaelmrose »

daxcurzon wrote: post #199
encryptluks2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I filed a lawsuit against someone who is using the money they stole frome to defend themselves. Basically if I win the money I get will be essentially gone and the Defendant will not have the means to pay anything back.

This is how it works in Czech Republic. Two brothers defrauded the government by forging signatures of the owners and notaries for the transfer of property deeds and took several hundred thousand Euros worth of land from various people. My friend's family has been in court for 10 years trying to get it back. The brothers mortgaged the properties to pay for litigation. The real shit sandwich is that one brother died,…

How do you keep people from taking justice into their own hands in such situations?
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