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Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

journals.plos.org

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Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#201

Post by Gibbon1 »

spookthesunset wrote: post #128
iammisc wrote: post #49

When my first daughter was born in 2018, I had a respiratory infection. It lasted three months before I went in to the doctor. I hesitated to seek medical advice because it was clearly viral. But the cough was so bad it was causing the newborn to wake up. The doctor (at a walk-in clinic) told me viral respiratory infections can last months and there's nothing you can do. Just wait. HE gave me some pills to stop the c…

> doctors are surprised that COVID may do the same? Because we all decided to collectively forget every single thing we know about respiratory viruses and infectious diseases. Somehow because covid is "novel" the world needed to rebuild our entire knowledge base from the ground up. A good example is how lasting t-cell immunity was dismissed for the longest time (and still is in many circles). People apparently seemed…

What was interesting to me is if you went back and read up on how various childhood disease worked. Nothing about Covid would surprise or confuse you. And one would not be blase about just letting it rip.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#202

Post by abystander »

spookthesunset wrote: post #180
CarelessExpert wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Expressing skepticism surrounding the efficiency of social distancing, masks, "non essential business" and all these lockdowns is not a "far right" talking point. You're absolutely right. This kind of misinformation isn't limited to the far right. > To this day we cannot say for certain that lockdowns did anything at all, LOL, what? This is a truly astonishingly statement. Literally every place that instituted lock…

I am absolutely making this claim in good faith. Where is your studies showing these restrictions worked well enough to justify their immense costs to society? They don’t exist. To date I’ve yet to see a single cost benefit analysis done for any of this. It simply wasn’t allowed to be done… you’d get shouted down by the mob. It worries me greatly how little critical thinking has been applied to the last 17+ months. I…

I notice a lot of run-of-the-mill liberals automatically assume their opponents who aren't manifestly crazy are "devil's advocates" or not making the argument in good faith.

It seems intellectually lazy and the epitome of condescension to cast away all criticism in this way. As those opposing arguments are always beyond the pale and not worthy of thought.

The overwhelming feeling I get from this type of person: "there's no possibility I'm wrong."

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#203

Post by AnimalMuppet »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #193
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried postural drainage for your lungs? I ask because if you've lost half your lung capacity (and I expect a singer and flute player would know), then you must have some kind of junk in there. For those not familiar with the term: You position yourself with your head a foot lower than your hips (and your back straight). You hold that for 15 minutes or so. You let gravity pull the junk out of your lungs down…

That sounds like the kind of thing you should do on the advice of your doctor, rather than on the advice of a stranger on the Internet.

Well, my daughter did it on the advice of a retired nurse (her grandmother).

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#204

Post by cycomanic »

jacquesm wrote: post #3

One of those cases here. Symptoms: suddenly out of energy, occasionally suddenly being unable to spell, even mild physical exercise leaves me floored (and I was pretty fit for my age prior to this). So, 17 months in: it's still not back to where it used to be but if you think of it in terms of trends instead of absolutes it is definitely still improving. The downs are less far down, the fog is lifting and the energy…

Funny I just saw a TV program discussing long covid. One of the guests was Jördis Frommhold who was elected woman of the year in Germany for her work on long covid rehab. Very interesting discussion.

One of the things she mentioned is that many of the long covid patients had mild to moderate covid infections. Also at the moment they don't know why some people get it and others don't. So likely your not calling the ambulance did not make a difference.

Hope you'll get better, the symptoms described sound awful.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#205

Post by abystander »

CarelessExpert wrote: post #86
FiReaNG3L wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea why you're getting downvoted - they have no control group and as you say there's 'depression' in their symptoms they count for. I'm pretty sure 'depression' (which I'm sure they don't count as clinically depressed, but 'im feeling more depressed') went up significantly in the whole population last year. Also PLoS one is basically not peer reviewed - they accept every paper after a short review.

Because the entire comment is clearly phrased to be antagonistic? "de facto criminalization of social activity"? Are they trying to troll people? Because that's how you troll people.

What would the average pro-lockdown person say if someone hosted a party or even got together with someone for coffee without a mask? They'd be calling for jail. I've heard this enough throughout the pandemic.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#206

Post by yread »

spookthesunset wrote: post #128
iammisc wrote: post #49

When my first daughter was born in 2018, I had a respiratory infection. It lasted three months before I went in to the doctor. I hesitated to seek medical advice because it was clearly viral. But the cough was so bad it was causing the newborn to wake up. The doctor (at a walk-in clinic) told me viral respiratory infections can last months and there's nothing you can do. Just wait. HE gave me some pills to stop the c…

> doctors are surprised that COVID may do the same? Because we all decided to collectively forget every single thing we know about respiratory viruses and infectious diseases. Somehow because covid is "novel" the world needed to rebuild our entire knowledge base from the ground up. A good example is how lasting t-cell immunity was dismissed for the longest time (and still is in many circles). People apparently seemed…

But... we did get infected with coronaviruses (the OC43 and friends) and other common cold viruses over and over again. The reinfection rate of ~15% for SARS-COV-2 is comparable to those

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#208

Post by cycomanic »

timr wrote: post #145
dragontamer wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear these stories and it makes me wonder if I somehow caught SARS way back in the early 2000s. Because these long symptoms people talk about were exactly what I felt back then. There was some dramatic respiratory illness I got that took took months before I felt "like normal" again. I was a young teenager so I never felt like I needed to go to the emergency room. But the amount of time it took to recover back was…

From personal experience, the symptoms being described by all of the posts on this thread overlap substantially with depression and anxiety. It's notable that the GP went to the hospital and was diagnosed with a possible panic attack. Panic attacks frequently cause your heart to race, skip, etc. Depression causes "brain fog" and fatigue, body aches, etc. So far, ~all of the reports of "long covid" are anecdotal and p…

You're wrong that long covid evidence is anecdotal. It is a clinical diagnosis though (i.e. it's diagnosed based on symptoms). I think you also severely underestimate the effect this had on people, and symptoms are not generally compatible with depression. Patients often show reduced lung capacity of 60%. The brain fog is also often much more severe than just not being able concentrate a bit, people can't do simple calculations, can't follow conversations, can't read more than a page in a book, immediately forget things they just talked about. Many people become completely unable to perform their usual tasks.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#209

Post by Dylan16807 »

jacquesm wrote: post #103
clairity wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Because I'm not a complete idiot.” yah, it’s the partial idiots who are hard to discern. complete idiots are the easiest to dismiss out of hand. many infections have long lasting effects. you’d need to systematically rule them out/in via testing to be as certain as you claim to be.

Right, well let's just say that coincidentally I had a viral infection that has the exact same symptoms as COVID, has the same long term effects as are reported in many cases of COVID and which coincidentally happened to be timed to match the first wave of that particular pandemic, but according to you it wasn't COVID when it wasn't confirmed as such with a test. Consider the alternative: you would have to come up wi…

> let's just say that coincidentally I had a viral infection that has the exact same symptoms as COVID, has the same long term effects as are reported in many cases of COVID and which coincidentally happened to be timed to match the first wave of that particular pandemic

That happened to a lot of people. The first wave in March wasn't very big compared to later months.

You mentioned the flu season didn't happen in a different post, but that was much later, as was most masking.

> Which to me seems to be a far more outrageous claim than the one that I was simply one of many.

That's a terrible way to analyze this. You were "one of many" either way.

> but I've yet to hear of some surprise viral disease that ran in parallel to this, isn't COVID but matches the symptoms so well.

The symptoms aren't all that unique for a severe illness that messes up your lungs. There's no 'surprise' involved in other possible causes.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#210

Post by abystander »

CarelessExpert wrote: post #184
spookthesunset wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am absolutely making this claim in good faith. Where is your studies showing these restrictions worked well enough to justify their immense costs to society? They don’t exist. To date I’ve yet to see a single cost benefit analysis done for any of this. It simply wasn’t allowed to be done… you’d get shouted down by the mob. It worries me greatly how little critical thinking has been applied to the last 17+ months. I…

> Where is your studies showing these restrictions worked well enough to justify their immense costs to society? And predictably the goalposts shift. First it was that we "cannot say for certain that lockdowns did anything at all". Now it's that the results don't "justify their immense costs to society". > and even then we didn’t know it would work going in, Again: Lockdowns are a basic application of germ theory. Th…

> Lockdowns are a basic application of germ theory.

And eugenics is a basic application of evolutionary biology.

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