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Delta Variant

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Re: Delta Variant

#201

Post by selectodude »

effie wrote: post #185
selectodude wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The background reasons for not wanting to get vaccinated are not medically indicated. Unless you have a PEG allergy (which means you need to get Janssen instead of Pfoderna) the CDC has zero contraindications for the vaccine. If somebody doesn't want the vaccine, that's on them. I have family members who won't get vaccinated and will give you a shopping list of reasons why they "can't". They're all bullshit.

I think major reasons in general are personal understanding of one's religion, distrust in pharma companies, distrust in media and health institutions, and reported adverse effects of vaccines (clots, heart inflammation, long-COVID like symptoms, even deaths). These are very real reasons. You may not put much weight on those personally but many people do.

>You may not put much weight on those personally but many people do.

And that is fine. I have no real moral issue with people not getting vaccinated. I also don't care if they get sick or if they can't ever leave their houses again.

Sitting here in my house with my thumb up my ass until 2027 waiting for the entire world to die, get covid, or eradicate it is not an acceptable tradeoff for me. More people die of acute lead poisoning from gun violence in my city every day than die of covid. It certainly doesn't stop me from leaving the house out of fear of getting shot.

Re: Delta Variant

#202

Post by driverdan »

bamboozled wrote: post #172
aeternum wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many reasons people choose not to get the vaccine. What evidence do you have that the main issue is a distrust of authority? The main authority on this, the FDA has not even officially approved the vaccine and likely won't for quite awhile. For some people it is logical to ask why other vaccines require 10year+ trials and for this a few months was sufficient. While personally, I think the risk of the virus…

Thanks for writing this, I'm still on the fence about taking it for this reason, it was rushed and the longer term implications are certainly still not fully understood. Edit: Again with the downvotes, it's a fact . No one has had this vaccine for 3,5 or 10 years. The long term effects cannot be fully understood until such time has lapsed and studies have been completed. Here, the creator of mRNA vaccines discusses t…

You're being downvoted because vaccination is not a new thing. mRNA vaccines are new but take 10 min to learn how they work. There is literally nothing left in your system that could impact you in "3,5 or 10 years."

Re: Delta Variant

#203

Post by hbrav »

kurthr wrote: post #127
tremon wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and we are past the potential 2-week delay from cases to deaths Not everywhere. See here, for example: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/netherland... The Netherlands went from 550 cases/day at the end of June to 10,000 cases/day now. The Delta variant took less than two weeks to spread as much as the EU variant did in two months (Sep 1st - Nov 1st). Of course, it was helped a lot by the government de…

I'm intrigued to know where this 2 week delay comes from. That's comparable to the time from first infection to full symptomatic state, but (based on US data) I see a much longer envelope of at least 2-8 weeks. Maybe this start measured from symptomatic or even test results date, but with test times I'd expect something closer to a 4-6 week delay in the statistics. https://github.com/ctesta01/animated_covid_rates/blo…

If you take the numbers from the UK (here https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/) and filter to just the 2nd and 3rd waves (testing was poor in 1st wave; lots of people are vaccinated in the 4th) and compute the autocorrelation function between positive tests and deaths, you see a peak around 14 days.

Re: Delta Variant

#204

Post by ceejayoz »

motohagiography wrote: post #187
aeternum wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many reasons people choose not to get the vaccine. What evidence do you have that the main issue is a distrust of authority? The main authority on this, the FDA has not even officially approved the vaccine and likely won't for quite awhile. For some people it is logical to ask why other vaccines require 10year+ trials and for this a few months was sufficient. While personally, I think the risk of the virus…

The FDA is ridiculously over conservative because of litigation, settlement, and insurance costs. They're not doing another thalidomide. My premise is that the facts we choose for our opinions are for support of an underlying belief, and that this underlying belief is that the people running things are full of shit, if not deceptive. I can't change someones mind about that (and wouldn't try), but I'm addressing that…

> They're not doing another thalidomide.

I'd note that the FDA didn't do the first thalidomide. Thalidomide is one of the first big FDA success stories; it was rejected, despite being approved by numerous other countries and pressure from the manufacturer and politicians at the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Oldham_Kelsey

Re: Delta Variant

#205

Post by [deleted] »

driverdan wrote: post #202
bamboozled wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this, I'm still on the fence about taking it for this reason, it was rushed and the longer term implications are certainly still not fully understood. Edit: Again with the downvotes, it's a fact . No one has had this vaccine for 3,5 or 10 years. The long term effects cannot be fully understood until such time has lapsed and studies have been completed. Here, the creator of mRNA vaccines discusses t…

You're being downvoted because vaccination is not a new thing. mRNA vaccines are new but take 10 min to learn how they work. There is literally nothing left in your system that could impact you in "3,5 or 10 years."

[deleted]

Re: Delta Variant

#206

Post by abystander »

nhod wrote: post #114

FWIW, I’ve been fully vaccinated (Moderna) since March. I was just in Provincetown, MA for the usual yearly 4th of July celebration with 10K other gay men, and Delta ripped through everyone. I got breakthrough COVID, which I assume is Delta because the symptoms were much more like the common cold than classic COVID. I probably know ~150 people in that group, and at least 14 people I know got breakthrough COVID. Meanw…

Didn't the CDC stop collecting data about this too? I seem to recall reading something like they only test hospitalizations now.

Re: Delta Variant

#207

Post by effie »

enragedcacti wrote: post #21
CPLX wrote: post #4

I have to admit, I'm a little perplexed about all the discussion around the Delta variant. It almost feels like people are discussing this like it's a plot point in a novel, a new looming threat that comes after Act II, rather than a cold scientific fact. As someone who lives in New York and has been vaccinated for months, should I worry about this? It seems like the answer to that question is no, I shouldn't. Also n…

If you’re vaccinated, you’re mostly safe, especially with mRNA vaccines. Keep your guard up for now, avoid events that might become super-spreaders, but you don’t need to worry much more than that. If you’re not vaccinated though, this is a much more dangerous time than March 2020. The transmission rate is higher than it used to be, and if you catch Delta, you’re much more likely to die—or get Long COVID. You should…

> only hang out with other vaccinated people

This is irrational. 1) According to available data, if you got vaccinated or pulled through COVID, you are well protected against severe COVID illness in future (cell immunity lasts for years). 2) You can get infected with variants both from vaccinated and unvaccinated people. You can't hide from unvaccinated people forever.

Re: Delta Variant

#209

Post by [deleted] »

aeternum wrote: post #192
bamboozled wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this, I'm still on the fence about taking it for this reason, it was rushed and the longer term implications are certainly still not fully understood. Edit: Again with the downvotes, it's a fact . No one has had this vaccine for 3,5 or 10 years. The long term effects cannot be fully understood until such time has lapsed and studies have been completed. Here, the creator of mRNA vaccines discusses t…

Here's the thing to consider though: The vaccine codes only for the spike proteins of the virus. You can look up the RNA strands within the vaccines and their translation to protein, it's a relatively short segment of RNA. RNA has a very short lifetime itself. If you do get exposed to Covid, your cells will be exposed to those very same spike proteins and more. Thus the vaccine should theoretically be much safer than…

[deleted]

Re: Delta Variant

#210

Post by OzyM »

bamboozled wrote: post #175
OzyM wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring the higher risk of major long-term damage incurred by letting yourself get sick when you could've been vaccinated, I don't understand how this thought process accounts for anyone else. What if my main reason for getting vaccinated is to lower my chance of infecting an immunocompromised person I care about? Even if I could somehow be 100% certain that if I were to be infected it'd be fully asymptomatic, the v…

But you can still infect other people? It's a non-sterilizing vaccine?

Non-sterilizing vaccines still reduce viral load, decreasing the amount of active viral particles in circulation. There are plenty of vaccines we use to curb epidemics that aren't full sterilizing vaccines.

For the COVID-19 U.S. vaccines in particular:

> Preliminary data from the clinical trials among adults ≥18 years old suggest COVID-19 vaccination may also protect against asymptomatic infection.[0]

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br...

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