We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments • Hacker News Board

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#201

Post by e12e » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #31

cde-v wrote: post #6

Would love something like this to kill (or at least severely maim) the broker industry in NYC. 0 value added at the cost of 10-15% of yearly rent.

The assumption that software can solve this problem is simply wrong. It's the regulation change that needs to happen if you don't want that renter pay the broker "services". For example, a new law in Germany to apply the "who hires pays" principle for brokers in the renting market basically made the renting "broker fee free" for renters. Previously, the landlords would hire a broker that needed to be paid by the rent…

> "who hires pays" principle for brokers in the renting market basically made the renting "broker fee free" for renters.

How can that work? Landlord (absent regulation) set the rents as high as they want/can get away with. What's the difference between 100/month rent + 50/month broker fee, and 150/month rent + "zero"/month broker fee?

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#202

Post by EricE » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

__sy__ wrote: post #175

EricE wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same company that provided the lockboxes from the original article has smart locks that use the same rotating one time code mechanism - and the locks don't require internet connectivity. A huge plus! https://www.igloohome.co/en-us/ I have had zero interest in using other smart locks - especially ones that require network connectivity of any sort, but this might be one that would be worth considering.

> I have had zero interest in using other smart locks - especially ones that require network connectivity of any sort I think I used to agree with that sentiment, but then I realized that I can remotely control stuff for things like grocery deliveries (which as you point out Igloo can do while technically offline!). To be clear though, just because igloohome's lock is technically offline, it does not mean it's necess…

> To be clear though, just because igloohome's lock is technically offline, it does not mean it's necessarily secure if there is a hole in their API auth.

Sure! But it sure cuts down on implementation complexity, and complexity is where security goes to die :)

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#203

Post by gfxgirl » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

coding123 wrote: post #18

ajb wrote: post #7

Glad they didn't go with virtual viewings - scam players here (UK) do that and just run away with the deposit.

Super rampant here in CA with Craigslist. Scammer will post a rental ad for a house that is currently for sale in Zillow. You know it's a scam pretty easily, but not everyone does. If someone other than Craigslist can get in this market and do a better job, one that verifies the Lister owns the property, and there is no funny business about who gets the property, that would be excellent.

I ran into this yesterday. It wasn't entirely clear it was a scam, well to me, at first. The first clue was "sorry, no in house viewing, we had son and 2 friends die from COVID, please understand". Yes, that's a big red flag but sounded like a legit excuse to me. But, at least it got me suspicious. Next was in their email they claimed to be working for somecompany.com but their email address was soomecompany.com. Finally the location was on redfin as having been sold only 4 month ago and the rental price was arguably 20% lower than it should have been. I can't prove it was a scam but I passed. It was frustrating to me that there is apparently no public online way to look up the owner of a property. I suppose there's some reason for that.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#204

Post by denimnerd42 » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

kennywinker wrote: post #156

TheRealPomax wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, in the case of NYT brokers, software would solve the problem of NYC brokers, by putting them out of a job. If you're from Germany, you have nothing to compare these people to, they run a racket that would be illegal there to begin with. They're nothing like the kind of rental agencies in Germany, they are individuals who basically figured out how to scalp entire buildings worth of apartments.

Op suggested regulation. I.e. making certain practices illegal. You responded: > they run a racket that would be illegal there to begin with. Perhaps making it illegal in nyc as well, as op suggested, is the solution? Rather than letting a tech company replace the scalpers with a scalping monopoly

do you think NYC making a law or regulation is going to lead to less corruption? This is NYC we are talking about after all.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#205

Post by rualca » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #159

Caretaker: The redfin of brokers. Take all the value for themselves freeze out the brokers (who provide a service but are universally disdained). Ride that wave of positive news for a couples years. Eventually everyone will hate the fraction of the market Caretaker has as they raise prices to make investors happy and people realize there are problems. It's like the same idea of Uber and Lyft. Less human involvement =…

> It's like the same idea of Uber and Lyft. Less human involvement = better world /S.

It's very easy and edgy to disdain the importance and positive impact of Uber and Lyft, but the truth of the matter is that the ride share revolution already introduced collosal improvements in quality of service in entrenched markets such as the old taxicab services.

I recall a time where unscrupulous taxicab services fraudulently inflated prices and made up twist-and-turn paths to fleece customers, and we're free to act as organized crime.

With rideshare services, you get routes and estimates generated a priori and in a deterministic way, and more importantly through a really auditable service. With rideshare services, a nasty driver is no longer totally shielded from criticism or consequences. With rideshare services, quality of service became something that was important to drivers.

And we have to than the Ubers ad Lyfts of the world for that.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#206

Post by handmodel » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #159

Caretaker: The redfin of brokers. Take all the value for themselves freeze out the brokers (who provide a service but are universally disdained). Ride that wave of positive news for a couples years. Eventually everyone will hate the fraction of the market Caretaker has as they raise prices to make investors happy and people realize there are problems. It's like the same idea of Uber and Lyft. Less human involvement =…

Uber and Lyft are 100% a win though.

- It is now cheaper for the average person to get a ride to an airport/bar than it was before. It is safer, more predictable with timing, and more predictable with pricing.

- Uber drivers make more money today than taxi drivers used to/or do today. There are also way more job openings in this than there used to be, with less friction to get involved.

The world is not a zero sum game. Technology made this a win-win long-term although there were already some people caught in the middle with old business models. However, that really cant be a reason for us not to move on.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#207

Post by baby » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

EricE wrote: post #183

baby wrote: post #139

I don’t get leases. In Europe I can get out of my apartment any time. In the US I’m stuck with my place for a year.

If you want to get out at any time look for month to month rentals. You will likely pay more for the flexibility...

I never had the luxury to limit my research to these places only. Actually I ran into one of these places once in 5 moves and it was a coliving space. I’m convinced they don’t even exist or you’d be looking at 1-2 places for an absurd price.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#208

Post by EricE » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

__sy__ wrote: post #189

EricE wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a smart lock that doesn't require Internet connectivity then power or network availability is not an issue. From the OP: https://www.igloohome.co/en-us/ It's the most innovative approach to smart locks I have ever seen and for this one nugget along I'm very grateful for the link to the original story!

Just a quick caveat that for non-consumer contexts, completely offline stuff doesn't cut it. The enterprise customers we have do want to get status reports for the devices (e.g. battery level, lock/unlocked status, which code was punched in...etc). There are good reasons for this, especially considering some operate fleets of 10K+ door locks across 3 continents.

Absolutely. For smaller/medium sites where you want some accountability but real time isn't required there are solutions out there like CyberLock - to get historical information you wait for keys to either check in as they charge or you can run around and touch the locks with a key and the system will do a status update.

It's not as convenient as wired/connected systems, but it's also a fraction of the price too. You can pick what's more important - real time or price :)

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#209

Post by jmuguy » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

benmanns wrote: post #99

__sy__ wrote: post #37

We started Seam (YC S20) a year ago to take on the problem of programmatic access to physical spaces (apartments, single-family homes, commercial buildings...etc). Basically one API that can open any door (smart locks, elevators, commercial buildings...etc). We're still in private beta but feel free to reach out if you're struggling with programmatic access. tbh, it's baffling that in 2021, this problem is still so d…

Do you have a recommendation on a quality smart lock for home use? Some ideal mix of security, style, open/compatible software.

We've gone through a bunch (including the Igloohome locks mentioned in the post) and landed on Yale's Assure line, specifically the YRD216 model with a physical keypad (not the touchscreen). Deployed in 100s of homes now (we're also property managers) with really no issue. We use Z-Wave to control but their modular system allows for Zigbee as well.

I would avoid the Schlage "Smart Deadbolt" model. At least when it comes to remote control they're pretty awful. (They're also hideous imo)

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#210

Post by gfxgirl » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #139

I don’t get leases. In Europe I can get out of my apartment any time. In the US I’m stuck with my place for a year.

A lease is also a plus for the renter that the rent will not change for the duration of the lease. Some places rent month to month but they may up the rent every month if the market suggests they can. Of course that could be solved by regulation I guess if a landlord was only allowed to change the rent between tenants and or once a year or so.