Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#201

Post by tunesmith » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 7:19 PM UTC

braincat31415 wrote: post #132

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> zero scientific evidence to the contrary, and plenty of evidence to support it We have evidence that vaccination continue to provide broad-spectrum immunity while those naturally immune are e.g. still vulnerable to the Delta variant [1]. [1] https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-genera...

The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that about half of adults infected in an outbreak of the delta variant in Israel were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine Source CNBC.

Is this intended as a counterpoint, or a point in support? People have been pretty loose with their "therefore" about this Israel snippet. After all, if 100% of Israel had been vaccinated with Pfizer, then 100% of adults infected with Delta would have been fully vaccinated. I'm sure the raw number of people infected with Delta is way down compared to what it would have been w/o vaccination though.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#202

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 7:20 PM UTC

aix1 wrote: post #186

chaosite wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no basis to believe at this point that we'll need "booster shots" of any kind with COVID vaccination, and in fact the opposite seems to be the case, so this comment is being downvoted for spreading misinformation (amusingly, this specific comment will probably be disliked by both vaccination proponents and disease proponents :) The reason we won't need yearly vaccinations as with the flu shots isn't a propert…

How do I reconcile this with the existence of, say, Moderna booster? https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d... (Genuine question.)

[deleted]

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

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Post by Yajirobe » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

raphlinus wrote: post #12

polote wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have any proof that the second dose is useful at all ?

There's very strong evidence, particularly against the Delta variant[1]. That paper cites a 33.5% effectiveness after one dose, compared to 87.9% after two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. [1]: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.22.21257658v...

Is it worth getting a third dose?

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#204

Post by sjwalter » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #175

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are ostracized That sounds like hell.

> hell My Canadian friends seem to think that's what their country has turned into, and on just about every front, not just vaccines.

Yea, I unfortunately have a lot of friends and family still there, and almost all of them are not gonna take the vaccine and find the social environment very taxing.

But, they are still OK, because they know we're never given any challenge to great for our spirits to overcome.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

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Post by kyboren » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

btrfsck wrote: post #48

wait_a_minute wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not your business to verify anything. It’s up to the individual to do what is best for their own situation. Focus on decisions for your own self and family.

The best solution for my own self and family is to be part of a system where we all agree to take basic precautions to safeguard the more vulnerable who cannot. If everyone who can get vaccinated does, then it fundamentally changes how dangerous the world is for those who are immunocompromised, or are too young to receive the vaccine. I wish that the number of people too selfish or foolish to receive the vaccine was…

> Has anything else we've ever done in all of history come close to the positive humanitarian impact that the development of vaccines has? Aside, perhaps, from the development of antibiotics or sanitation or irrigation?

> Being able to vaccinate ourselves has to be one of the major legs up we've developed as a species in general. And people are choosing to discard it. I find it deeply frustrating.

I think along similar lines and I share your frustration.

Other creatures advantage themselves through brute strength, or flight, or some other physical characteristics. But Man is special: Man's advantage is his brain. Our unique ability to think; to reason; to read, write, and remember; to explore the rules of the universe gives us the prerogative to understand and alter our environment.

All of those achievements you mention are expressions of Man's ability to apply his intellect to alter his condition in his environment. Here, with these vaccines, we have a nearly pure example of the fundamental advantage we humans have against a new unthinking, uncaring, endemic adversary of all humanity.

We have done the hard work. We have used our advantage, endowed by our Creator, to build the weapons that will defeat this new enemy. Now our biggest obstacle to final victory is not the virus itself--it's other humans.

It's deeply, deeply frustrating.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

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Post by munk-a » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

sjwalter wrote: post #200

mrj wrote: post #156

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It's not novel, this technology has been trialed and used for a decade, 3 years in vaccines. We do already have long-term data. You would see side effects for a vaccine within six months, and we have been administering it for much longer than that. The vaccines are safe. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7956899/

This is incredibly misleading. I used to be a close follower of the pharma industry, and you're making it seem like FDA trials happen on molecules and formulations somewhat related to the proposed formulation and then are, like, transitively approved on that hand-wavey basis. This is totally wrong. For reasons that should be obvious to any engineer that's worked on any kind of even moderately complex system, the mole…

The flu shot that's available each year doesn't undergo long term trials - it actually usually goes through about nine months to a year of trials due to predictions on what the flu outbreak will look like - but even then the substance is a reconfiguration of technology with new details being integrated.

In some areas of medicine we can afford to move slowly and we absolutely should - but when it comes to the flu we don't have that luxury.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

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Post by vxNsr » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

tunesmith wrote: post #198

vxNsr wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just saw a quote from Gottlieb Who is this? Why do we care what he says? Can you provide a source for the quote? The Cleveland clinic disagrees with your “authoritative” quote (see comments above)

Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former commissioner of FDA, https://twitter.com/SquawkCNBC/status/1409465340292222986

Thanks, he doesn’t directly address this new study. And uses soft, non-definitive language that can be walked back if needed. Not saying I don’t appreciate you providing the source, but as far as what he says vs what you said he said… it’s a little different.

I’d also like to add, I don’t think many ppl are thinking they’d rather get the disease vs the vaccine, rather, if they already got the disease, is there a real benefit vs the risks of the vaccine (eg the heart stuff we’re seeing now). Personally I was careful and never got sick, so I got the vaxx ASAP, but I do think it’s a fair and legitimate concern.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

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Post by zajio1am » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

dawnerd wrote: post #21

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #5

The mRNA vaccines have been the silver lining to the whole COVID-19 disaster. They seem “unreasonably effective” against COVID, basically if you had a genie that you could ask to make a vaccine, it would be hard to do much better, other than the requirement for 2 jabs. In addition, the mRNA technology has broad applicability to other issues such as other viruses (such as flu) and even cancer!

Traditional vaccines have also been "unreasonably effective". I'm all for mRNA going forward (I got pfizer myself) but lets not downplay just how effective the "old" tech has been against covid. It's really quite amazing how well we've been able to target it. Now if only we could get more people to accept that the vaccines are safe...

> Traditional vaccines have also been "unreasonably effective"

AFAIK not really. I know just about Sinovac and that was significantly worse efficacy than other vaccines. Note that adonovirusvector based vaccines like AstraZeneca one are not 'traditional vaccines' but also rather new tech.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

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Post by motohagiography » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #195

motohagiography wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What outcome does a domestic vaccine passport achieve? I work in health information privacy, where regulations were written to prevent that specific situation. There's no denying it's a proxy for political positions, so the case for it needs to be clear, especially in a world where people say in public that it is "irresponsible," to entertain critical opinions. What problem does a domestic vaccine passport solve?

> There's no denying it's a proxy for political positions What does that mean? Vaccination is not a political position in most other countries - it's just a policy goal at a national level. The goal would be to give local governments and businesses an approved way to understand who has received the vaccine so they could open up safely.

Again, what is the effect of a covid-unvaccinated person entering a room full of covid-vaccinated people? We need clarity on that message.

Some people just aren't motivated by fear or shame, and so for a universal campaign to succeed, we need to appeal to those peoples' sense of reason.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

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Post by melody_calling » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 7:26 PM UTC

reedjosh wrote: post #153

saiya-jin wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this kind of attitude is exactly what OP had in mind. There are tons of central databases you are already registered in, all available on demand. They detail your life in more detail than you know about yourself at this point (certainly when all data are combined). To be not aware of this on place like HackerNews is... not very believable, we discuss this all the time, every day. "last bastion of freedom" - t…

I like your comment, and I agree the Swiss are probably free-er at this point--but we were something of a free nation at one time, and we still (Orwellian?) bill ourselves as such. > There are tons of central databases you are already registered in, all available on demand. Most of these are not ran by the government though. Thus their use is not mandated. > your freedom ends where other's begins In libertarian circl…

Well, you're halfway there. Each state already runs an immunization information system which holds this data.

In Arizona, it's required that all immunizations given to <=18s are reported (along with "encouragement" for providers to report adult immunizations) and this is the basis for determining if the child may attend a public school, for example.