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Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

economist.com

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Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#201

Post by philshem »

vyrotek wrote: post #169
contriban wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm. My parents own a restaurant in Italy and if the authorities come it’s a € 2000/3000 fine for sure. For a small seasonal business that’s substantial. For example if you give a receipt and the customer misplaces it on the way out and can’t find anymore, you’re liable for tax evasion. Never mind that the POS has its own registry they can check. For the authorities, “you didn’t give a receipt, so they can’t…

Just curious, mind messaging me the restaurant? I'm in the US but my family is from Milano and have had a family shop for decades. Hoping to visit again soon!

Nice try, Italian tax police /s

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#202

Post by StreamBright »

sildur wrote: post #178
laurent92 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end, one may talk about all the startups (when the BPI pumps billions into it, I sure hope there are some startups and medium companies), but EU has proven unable to build an Apple . It would be dismantled here, and CEO beaten up before reaching any interesting level. DailyMotion (French) was as big as Youtube. Many others like this. We always end up #2, and the Silicon Valley still decides what is ok to say o…

EU built a Nokia. Until MS infiltrated and dismantled it, that is.

Nokia dismantled itself. Just one trivial example. Nokia backup software. It was 10x worse than anything Microsoft ever produced. They did bot care about the feedback.

How long can you push a shitty product? Not that long I guess.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#203

Post by sildur »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #147
oneplane wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, people here don't tend to go bankrupt and lose their house, healthcare (ironically) and life (from a social aspect) in general when they don't have a perfect health. They don't have to hide their state of wellbeing from their employer in the hope of not getting fired, and they don't have to worry about living on the street because they don't have a job for a bit. Businesses are fun and all, but in…

You need to be employed in order to get Healthcare in most of the EU countries anyway, so it's not all that rosy as Americans tend to think.

No, that's false. At the very least, all residents are covered, regardless of their working status in Austria, Spain, Portugal, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Luxembourg, Norway, Romania, Serbia, and Sweden.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#204

Post by ativzzz »

nxc18 wrote: post #59
chrisseaton wrote: post #8

Why are European companies so unambitious ? My whole civilian career I've had to work for North American companies because the European alternatives aren't even attempting to be competitive.

I have wondered this. I work at an American company with many European employees and it is just really hard to see a complete lack of ambition/competitiveness. At some point being on vacation so much must hurt, I know projects are delayed when folks just can’t be expected to be there and will randomly disappear for 4+ weeks at a time. But that really doesn’t explain the extreme cultural conservatism towards effort/am…

A very US mindset. I live in the US and I completely disagree with your outlook on life.

Great food with friends, or a vacation with family provides so much more satisfaction to me than anything a job could provide. The only thing a job provides that those things can't is money.

I'm not so egotistical to think that I'm special and not easily replaceable. I'm no Steve Jobs or Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein. I'm just a programmer. If I stopped working, society would not care at all. I bet you are not much different.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#205

Post by SOMA_BOFH »

yoz-y wrote: post #195
apatters wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you don't you'll end up with fewer businesses, which will concentrate wealth, which has documented negative effects on society.

The article, most people here, and the reality disagrees with that. The point is that all the giants are elsewhere. Case in point as mentioned elsewhere: we actually have ISP competition here.

and as a result of this, you're more innovative how...?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#206

Post by mattlondon »

profunctor wrote: post #4

Would have been nice if they had given a serious mention to some of the positives. Sure, Europe ahs hundreds of mobile operators but we also have cheaper plans than any I could find in America. We also have serious competition with our internet providers so I can actually switch to a better service. Anyway it is sad that we can't seem to grow as many new large companies. Hopefully we can improve at that while keeping…

Yes this is something I have been really surprised by too - people spending 50,60,70+ USD a month on a mobile service. WTF?

Even in the UK there are numerous providers (some virtual networks I admit but they still price differently) and you can get perfectly decent service for less than 10GBP (typically unlimited calls, but data is the thing you pay for now, so 5GBP might get you 500mb of data 10GBP gets you 2gb a month, 15GBP gets you 5gb etc. I personally never user more than a few GB a month on my phone - WiFi is everywhere)

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#207

Post by SOMA_BOFH »

Tesl wrote: post #154
SOMA_BOFH wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have you tried to start a company there?

Did you completely fail to parse what he was saying there or something?

responding to a question with a question. rhetorical brilliance.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#208

Post by shoto_io »

238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

I have founded 3 companies in Germany and I have lived in the States.

A couple of comments:

1. Founding the companies was complex I have to admit, and costly. But I would not refrain from founding the next one. It’s just a matter of practice I guess. Still I’d love to have an easier, less expensive way.

2. The EU is a composition of many states, just like the US. People, processes differ a lot.

3. FWIW, filing personal taxes in the States was way more than complicated than over here.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#209

Post by sildur »

wpasc wrote: post #109
Barrin92 wrote: post #99

As usual the article is almost exclusively concerned with market capitalization as an indicator of economic success. Countries like Germany are dominated by small and middle-class, family owned business. 'Big corporate' is indeed more successful in the US or China but it's just one model to manage an economy and I don't think it's that great. One of the most important points is also buried at the end of the article >…

In defense of the article (not agreeing nor disagreeing), the article then includes reasons why it is concerned with market capitalization: >But if it continues, the waning of Europe’s business will bring consequences. Big firms invest in innovation, which boosts economic growth. Left to regulate only foreign groups, Europe’s ability to shape global business norms—on privacy, say, or the uses of artificial intelligen…

We prefer to influence global norms/best practices via our democratically elected governments, instead of via corporate behemoths who probably don't have our interests in mind.

On the other hand, contrary to the US, in Europe we generally trust in our governments. Since we do not have huge corporations here, it's more difficult to influence government decisions, specially at Europe level.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#210

Post by SOMA_BOFH »

thijsc wrote: post #143
238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

Reporting back: Your comment is utter nonsense. There is a thriving tech scene in Europe and we do quite well! Reliable and cheap health care is a huge boon for small entrepreneurs. There’s little regulation to deal with as a software company. Child care and great schools are cheap or free. Yes firing people is much harder, that is a different context compared to the US you have to properly plan for. Which we do over…

>There is a thriving tech scene in Europe

please explain

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