Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

ifixit.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–206 of 206 posts

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#201

Post by Too »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #102
joshspankit wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve used a grey argument. Apple themselves have argued that one of the reasons they have to limit repair is for public safety (someone could have a battery explode if they pierce it, for example), whereas we could also argue the other side: that if someone modifies their own medical device and gets hurt because of it that they legally only hurt themselves because they had the right to make that choice. IMO it come…

> IMO it comes down to this: do we advocate for laws that give companies the ability to decide what is right/safe for the public, or do we advocate for laws that reflect trust in the individual? This is a really great way to put it, and it applies broadly to so many fundamental disagreements in the tech world. I firmly believe it’s better to trust the individual—so I think users should be able to sideload iOS apps (o…

If one thinks that self driving cars are scary. Imagine having Look ma! I improved the autopilot in my Tesla!! driving on public roads or being sold 2nd hand.

Car SW that can control the vehicle motion goes through very rigorous ISO processes, it's not something you just casually tinker with as an individual. Given its hard to visually inspect, one needs a way to understand if a car has been modified or not. This article also on the front page here yesterday explains the complexity and cost of integration verification https://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/adv...

Enabling serious third party aftermarket companies that have gone through same level of certification, nothing against that, but individuals, not so sure.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#202

Post by _Understated_ »

Too wrote: post #201
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMO it comes down to this: do we advocate for laws that give companies the ability to decide what is right/safe for the public, or do we advocate for laws that reflect trust in the individual? This is a really great way to put it, and it applies broadly to so many fundamental disagreements in the tech world. I firmly believe it’s better to trust the individual—so I think users should be able to sideload iOS apps (o…

If one thinks that self driving cars are scary. Imagine having Look ma! I improved the autopilot in my Tesla!! driving on public roads or being sold 2nd hand. Car SW that can control the vehicle motion goes through very rigorous ISO processes, it's not something you just casually tinker with as an individual. Given its hard to visually inspect, one needs a way to understand if a car has been modified or not. This art…

> Look ma! I improved the autopilot in my Tesla!!

I see where you are coming from but right now, if autopilot kills someone, then Tesla are on the hook for it (ok, there may be grey areas but ultimately, they made it so that has to point back to them in a big way when it comes to court cases). However, if I jailbreak my autopilot and kill someone, it's me that has to face the music!

I don't see the harm in scaling the jailbreak hoops you need to jump through.

For example, if I wanted to safely jailbreak my iPhone, there is nothing stopping Apple having an official app that you need to get a special key from Apple for. Maybe a phone call or something, or an email to support. It would come with a caveat that says your jailbroken phone forfeits any warranty claims. Fair enough.

When you are talking about jailbreaking a Tesla, there could be other layers. Like, for example, you have to go to a Tesla dealer where they explain the legal and support ramifications and whatnot. Then you sign a bit of paper with witnesses. Then they send you out a usb dongle in the post after a few days etc. Maybe, though with the Tesla, there would be limits. Like, you can't get the source code, or you are only able to to X things with it.

You get the idea... there could potentially be a scale for stuff like this.

I'm just chucking stuff out there, this isn't a realistic example so please put your pitch forks away :)

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#203

Post by Wowfunhappy »

Too wrote: post #201
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMO it comes down to this: do we advocate for laws that give companies the ability to decide what is right/safe for the public, or do we advocate for laws that reflect trust in the individual? This is a really great way to put it, and it applies broadly to so many fundamental disagreements in the tech world. I firmly believe it’s better to trust the individual—so I think users should be able to sideload iOS apps (o…

If one thinks that self driving cars are scary. Imagine having Look ma! I improved the autopilot in my Tesla!! driving on public roads or being sold 2nd hand. Car SW that can control the vehicle motion goes through very rigorous ISO processes, it's not something you just casually tinker with as an individual. Given its hard to visually inspect, one needs a way to understand if a car has been modified or not. This art…

There's an additional wrinkle for cars that make them unlike other devices, which is that they drive on public roads. I can't drive on a public road without a license, and neither should software.

But if little Johnny wants to drive his Tesla around a private racetrack with homespun Autopilot software, by all means! It's hardly the weirdest hobby, and who knows—maybe he'll grow up and form a startup that uses modified Tesla's to transport products in large warehouses. That's how innovation happens.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#204

Post by Wowfunhappy »

joshspankit wrote: post #196
Karunamon wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, no, but you'll be repetitively bothered by modal popups until you do.

As well: older versions have known exploits that you (as a locked-out user) are unable to patch.

Right, whereas on macOS I literally patched an exploit myself a couple of months ago, because I could inject my own code. https://github.com/Wowfunhappy/Fix-Apple-Mail-CVE-2020-9922

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#205

Post by joshspankit »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #135
sneak wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't claim to be in favor of Apple retaining control of every iPhone they sell. Please re-read my comment. My claim is that for most users of iPhones, the situation of Apple being in control of their device, rather than themselves, results in a better outcome for that user (and is oftentimes explicitly preferred by that user as a result, and is reflected in their purchase of an iPhone). In fact, Apple delegates c…

> My claim is that for most users of iPhones, the situation of Apple being in control of their device, rather than themselves, results in a better outcome for that user (and is oftentimes explicitly preferred by that user as a result, and is reflected in their purchase of an iPhone). Okay, but that comes out to the same thing, since I can't buy an iPhone which isn't Apple managed. If Apple offered a choice, that woul…

> What they give you is the ability to sign up to three apps at a time, all of which expire after seven days. It's not useful for anything but testing.

And if they decide to they can flip a switch on their server to disable your account and stop “your” apps from launching.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#206

Post by joshspankit »

wernercd wrote: post #126
sneak wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that individuals should control their own devices. I also agree with Apple's implicit claim that if iOS users could sideload apps, millions of idiot iOS users would get their devices owned after they followed some "follow these seven steps to get free $POPULAR_MOBILE_GAME tokens!" guide they found on the web, making the platform less trustworthy overall. Apple makes a good argument that buying an iPhone is al…

and yet, despite occasional problems, the same hasn't happened in the Android sphere with sideloading. Problems? Sure... but not "ZOMG MILLIONS!" "Apple makes a good argument" Their argument doesn't give near enough excuses for their mafia level racket to shake down businesses of protection money. "Pay us or Joey will break your kneecaps. Its for your own protection."

Hot take: it seems more like “This disorder is a blemish on our glossy surface. We must sweep it away so that it no longer exists.”
Post reply on HN