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Be in a field where tech is the limit

mathiaskirkbonde.substack.com

201–210 of 213 posts

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#201

I worked in bio tech for 4 years. Amazing people and problems. Worst pay, top heavy salaries. When a phd makes 80k a year and a “ML/AI” data scientist is lucky to make 100k you won’t find any progress like software They need to cut the top heavy executive bloat, respect the mid tier with better pay

The only way to get around these cultural/institutional barriers is to found your own business. I started a pharma company and ran it like a startup (bc it was a startup). Paid decent salaries, worked really hard (literally, one of our contractors complained, “you guys work so hard”). Exited before our phase I/II completed.

A parallel way is to start a company that only does one part, say a software based part. Pharma will pay more for tools that solve their problems than they would pay for a couple of FTEs to solve their problem directly. The problem is your customer may not know how to put your product to use, or even understand its value. So sales is no slam dunk.

I loved my time in the pharma business but was happy to go back to what’s called “tech.” Culturally the life sciences CES are full of some dreadful pathological practices, and I prefer the pathological practices I’m familiar with :-(.

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#202
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with the higher cost of living in SF/NYC/Seattle, tech pay at FAANG is pretty high. Senior software positions are pretty much start at $300k/yr across all of those companies. Plus these companies generally have excellent healthcare plans and good vacation policies. At those income levels pretty much the only thing you’re really priced out of are nice single family homes, but I suspect that’s the same in Zurich.

When the associate data scientists are making $100-150k, and the product/graphic designers are lucky to be getting $80k, that's pretty fucking top-heavy and absurd.

You're not comparing apples to apples. Senior designers and data scientists also typically make 250K+ (and often 300K+) at these companies.

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#203
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do most statistical arbitrage/high frequency trading/market making shops manage state pension money? I use these terms loosely – if you want me to be more precise I can just start naming individual firms. Again, I take no issue with the firms that responsibly manage people's pensions, help the public access equity and bond markets, and so on. But those are not the firms that the people making demeaning comments about…

Here's another example focusing on just market makers and the value they provide... Many people disparage used car dealers. The used car salesperson is a trope punching bag. They offer bad prices versus what someone can get by using Craigslist or AutoTrader or something and putting in modest effort. But those businesses serve a purpose because they allow folks to buy or sell a vehicle real darn fast relative to Craig…

I was going to include market makers in my previous post, but didn't to keep things simple. I agree the benefits from them seem pretty clear, in the sense that lowering the spread and increasing liquidity helps retail investors (and maybe market stability in general). But there are a few points here that I think make a lot of people uncomfortable.

First, it's not so clear this is meaningful work. If I'm a smart college graduate and go to work in biotech, I get to save lives and cure disease (ideally). If I go to work at a market making firm, I get to ... lower the spread? I think it's quite reasonable for someone to forgo doing this because they feel it doesn't make a meaningful contribution to the world.

Second, I've watched many incredibly talented people disproportionately go work at HFT firms, and it's hard to to avoid the impression this is socially wasteful. Efficient markets are nice, but do the markets really need to be efficient on a microsecond scale? It seems like the talent sink here is unfortunate and society might be better off if some of them worked instead on, say, biotech or alternative energy sources.

I agree the the cause is obvious: finance pays more money. But it's hard to avoid thinking about solutions that reduce the profitability of HFT and don't harm market efficiency significantly, for example eliminating the subpenny rule [0]. It seems clear to me that if the current incentives result in one industry essentially monopolizing the nation's most quantitatively able workers, then those incentives might need to change.

I don't think this point was made explicit in the original post you responded to, but it lurks in the background.

Finally, I really wish you would treat other examples of market participants. Because right now you've done the easy cases, the ones that I, a total outsider, can mount a defense for. Again, it's the other ones that are interesting. And it's clear there are a ton of participants who are a) not aimed at increasing access for retail investors and b) not market makers.

[0] https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2012/hft_whats_broken.htm...

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#204
post #181
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're on bigcorp welfare and you do as little work as required to not lose your benefits.

Companies pay as little as required not to lose employees or break laws. Work is a transaction, and it looks like both that person and their employer are satisfied with the arrangement.

Normally, yeah, sure. But sometimes not. Sometimes the world isn't such a shitty place. Sometimes an employer will decide to take a chance on an employee and invest in them, and pay them more than they need to. Sometimes that same employee will decide to work harder than they need to in order to achieve the goal they share with that employer.

I certainly don't run my business by paying all my staff the absolute bare minimum I need to so they can do work that is just-as-good-but-no-better than needed.

For a company reliant on innovation and driven by human capital, the dynamic you are describing seems like something that would normally come into play at a late stage of its life. Ignoring other factors, imagine how easy it would be to compete against a company that is entirely run this way and staffed by people who work like this. Literally no one there would even care that they're facing disruption.

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#205
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked as a post-doc at a pharma company in Europe, our research-based department was in need of a software engineer as our collection of crappy R/python scripts couldn't actually be linked up to any equipment or processes. HR asked what sort of salary range we were looking at, we suggested that we won't get any decent candidates for less than 70k EUR and were laughed out of the room and they decided on a 50k limit…

I don't understand, you guys have PhDs, why can't you write a script yourself? Porting it to java will speed it up a few x, and if it uses some silly library like pandas or numpy or spark then consider it a great time to rewrite it from scratch properly with no dependencies :)

i have so many questions about this comment

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#206
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's another example focusing on just market makers and the value they provide... Many people disparage used car dealers. The used car salesperson is a trope punching bag. They offer bad prices versus what someone can get by using Craigslist or AutoTrader or something and putting in modest effort. But those businesses serve a purpose because they allow folks to buy or sell a vehicle real darn fast relative to Craig…

I was going to include market makers in my previous post, but didn't to keep things simple. I agree the benefits from them seem pretty clear, in the sense that lowering the spread and increasing liquidity helps retail investors (and maybe market stability in general). But there are a few points here that I think make a lot of people uncomfortable. First, it's not so clear this is meaningful work. If I'm a smart colle…

Define "meaningful work". Is it challenging? Enjoyable? Does it provide a good or service that someone wants? Can you support your dependents? Do you like the people you eat lunch with? Does it use the specialized skills that you have invested in learning? Check check check check check check.

Not sold? There are 168 hours in a week! Someone's raison d'etre need not fall into the 40 hours of the work week. For example, my job permits my spouse to pursue what she absolutely loves.

"Socially wasteful" is in the eye of the beholder. We probably have different values or philosophies. Let's just disagree.

You seem fixated on HFT. And you want more examples. Say there's some low-latency statistical arbitrage shop full of biotech luminaries that were sucked into finance only for the pay. And say they trade only to line their own pockets. And they hate all puppies and every single kitten. Real morally objectionable dirt bags. They're still (still!) trading with willing counterparties who wanted to trade that specific instrument at that specific price or per those specific terms. Every single trade requires two participants.

Hit me up by email if you want to talk more.

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use your free time to build stuff, save the money to bootstrap and when your project gains traction, leave and build your own things so that you're not making someone else wealthy. The brightest absolutely do spend their time and energy making others wealthy (ex: I would consider most senior eng at FAANG to be bright and although they are definitely rich, they are not wealthy). I suspect that's because of the cycle o…

The thing about FAANGs and BigCos is they have more money than they know how to spend. The majority of that headcount spend is just to capture "talent" so others don't have it. I've seen millions of dollars-worth of software development waste as FAANG and BigCo. Nobody bats at eye. Because it's a bizarro world with no consequences. All you gotta do is not get wrapped up in it and collect checks ;)

> The majority of that headcount spend is just to capture "talent" so others don't have it.

I think people on both sides forget this. You don’t need 300 engineers to solve very many problems, but if you use 300 it means 2 other companies don’t solve it too.

And just because you’re making a ton of money working for a big company, doesn’t mean that what you’re doing is that important. It might just be to humor you. Even at small places, sometimes the established players get thrown a bone, working on something frivolous because it makes them happy, so they stick around.

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grievances shared in this thread re biotech salaries are certainly valid, no doubt. But the field is slowly going through a generational change. There are more and more companies that organize themselves around engineering (software or not) as their main mission. These workplaces then have to grapple with the fact that in order to attract engineering talent, the historical wage suppression of biotech needs to go.…

Can you share more about some of the technical problems Streamline works on?

Sure!

Our domain is precision oncology. In brief, this is about matching cancer patients with available targeted therapies by examining the genome of their cancer. This is different from how the majority of cancer patients are treated today: surgery and {chemo,radio}therapy.

Here is a problem in our domain where tech is one of the limiting factors.

If you look at the DNA of any cell and compare it against the reference genome, you'll find a lot of differences, aka variants. Typically even more so if you're looking at a sequenced tumour (~1e6 variants). This is your hay stack. And a variant that can be medically targeted to treat the cancer is the needle. The definition of what variant is "clinically relevant" is layered, context-dependent, and (partially) regulated. Software is responsible for automating away the majority of variants, say down to 10-100, in a justifiable, traceable way. It's also responsible for giving tools to the clinician to deal with the remaining ones. This manual step typically involves an informed line of questioning about each variant backed by 100s of supporting data points about it.

Without these two tech pieces, interpreting a single molecular pathology report can and does take many hours of (expensive) expert time, instead of minutes. For a rough sense of scale: human genome has ~3e9 nucleotides (ACTG), has ~3e4 known genes, ~1e6 known gene interactions, and ~1e8 known variants. Typical whole genome sequencing produces > 30GB of raw data (compressed).

This is probably the first problem everyone runs into. There are plenty of other ones, some more challenging and interesting than others. Feel free to send me an e-mail if you'd like to discuss this more! amir[at]streamlinegenomics.com

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