Earlier quoted context omitted.
Chrome was an excellent browser when it launched... It might not be able to compete with such a wide gap against all the Chromium based clones out there now, but it was rightfully an amazing experience. Initially its only competition felt like Firefox
a list of shockers - streamed install process (download a shim of 300kB which will stream the rest) - obviously the chromeless ui - the dynamic status bar (ok that was the point above) - downloads shown below (as cute as the status bar, actually I miss that thing) - something about tab closing that was more regular (no need to move your mouse) - option / printing lean and fast
Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)
201–210 of 228 posts
Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
I never understood why Yahoo got so wrapped around the axle with the search engine business. I used to use Yahoo a lot to start my web browsing and I liked the fact that it wasn't a search engine. They provided broad categories that you could click on and you could keep drilling down to more specific categories until you found relevant websites. Not always the best way to search the web but it was great when you didn…
One sad niche they missed was fantasy sports. Yahoo fantasy leagues were great, with configurable rules and such. Now fantasy is a big business and deeply tied to legalized sports gambling. That could have been worth hundreds of millions in revenue for Yahoo.
Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
Chrome was an excellent browser when it launched... It might not be able to compete with such a wide gap against all the Chromium based clones out there now, but it was rightfully an amazing experience. Initially its only competition felt like Firefox
a list of shockers - streamed install process (download a shim of 300kB which will stream the rest) - obviously the chromeless ui - the dynamic status bar (ok that was the point above) - downloads shown below (as cute as the status bar, actually I miss that thing) - something about tab closing that was more regular (no need to move your mouse) - option / printing lean and fast
Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)
#204I worked at Yahoo! when this was going on, I’m amazed the share holders didn’t sue Jerry Yang and the board for avoiding this sale. Yahoo had very little of technological value and was actively trying to destroy its own search business amongst other properties at the time. They really were in a prime position and bungled it extremely badly, I think they had maybe 20% of the search market at the time. Carol Bartz late…
I also worked at Yahoo at that time, and I remember the feelings internally were more mixed. It was known that nearly all (or even more than 100%) of Yahoo's market value was the investment in Alibaba. Microsoft's offer basically valued all of Yahoo minus Alibaba and minus Yahoo Japan basically at nothing. And I'm perplexed by your blame on Jerry Yang, as out of the entire history of Yahoo, his Alibaba investment was…
Yahoo is still huge in Japan. According to the statistics I found, Google is #1 with 75% market share and Yahoo is #2 with 19%, but everybody I know around me uses Yahoo.
Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
firefox definitely had tabbed browsing and private mode before chrome was released. pretty sure opera had tabbed browsing as well. i just recall chrome being very minimal, clean and fast when it was first released. plus as kreeben said, Google was pretty revered at the time.
Chrome made a big thing at launch about their process isolation of tabs. Was that their innovation?
Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)
#206I worked at Yahoo! when this was going on, I’m amazed the share holders didn’t sue Jerry Yang and the board for avoiding this sale. Yahoo had very little of technological value and was actively trying to destroy its own search business amongst other properties at the time. They really were in a prime position and bungled it extremely badly, I think they had maybe 20% of the search market at the time. Carol Bartz late…
There's nothing inconsistent with the idea that a decade after Google established its extremely strong monopoly position in the search market, the barriers to entry, and the way to achieve success in the now established market are completely different than they were before Google achieved that monopoly and the market was as mature.
Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
These were done around 2004-2006 IIRC, I don't know if the brand impact today is the same as it was back then. I'll see if I can find publications, but I think most, if not all of it, was not published. Even when you told people that we were substituting in different search engines and the presentation and layout was not indicative of where the results came from, putting a Google logo on the page produced a measurabl…
I actually have no idea how good the search results from other search engines were in 2004-2006. I was exclusively google by then and I'm willing to admit it's entirely plausible it's competitors had similar results. But in 2001-2002, I remember Google having a significantly better search experience. And it was massively better than all it's competitors from the 90s. A large factor were the snippets, which gave you a…
Yup, I would say it was better through most a good chunk of 2002, which garnered it [checks notes]... about 16% market share at that point. If you include the AOL traffic, that'd be 21%. To put that in perspective, MSN's search market share grew by more than that entire share just in 2003.
> A large factor were the snippets, which gave you a decent indication if the result was relevant before even clicking. Before the other search engines copied that feature, they would just show the contents of the meta description tag.
Yup, the impact of that UX was huge. It really improved conversion rates. Everyone else figured that out pretty quickly and adopted that.
> It also seemed to index a much wider range of sites and ranked them better.
Really, it was the ranking function. As their competitors rapidly discovered, having a broader set of sites actually made having a good ranking function so much more crucial.
Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
Inktomi, Altavista, AllTheWeb, all later under Yahoo. No question about the "feel", but it's amazing how perception fuels reality. We did a lot of studies of this, and one of the more interesting ones was that if you told people they were seeing Google search results (regardless if they were), they'd be more inclined to rewrite their queries and look farther down in the search results, rather than try using another s…
[Google employee, but AltaVista fanboy previously, been on the internet since the 80s and used all of these as they hit the market, and I remember the joy/excitement as each one hit in those days, like a moon landing. Also a DEC Alpha fanboy :)] No way Altavista or Inktomi offered better result than Google. I was a heavy user of both, having adopted AltaVista mainly for similar reasons that I adopted Google, because…
Yes, that would be a foolish claim. Fortunately I made no such claim.
The differences at launch were indeed striking, much as they had been with HITS. That was in 1998. Four years later, at the time the article you linked to was posted, Google's market share was... 16%. While at that point they may have dominated mind share and brand value, they didn't dominate the market. That would come later.
Google's situation in 2002 was that they were no longer such a clear cut winner. Per the article: "Google much like Inktomi, must re-evalutate what it’s currently doing... ...search is going strong but the Penguin update has raised a lot of questionable results to the surface". Their search quality was already faltering. Of course, in the next twelve months, they'd literally gain as much market share as they'd garnered in the entire history of the company (and yes, that was a one time leap in market share).
I'll say it again: most of the market share gains came from the distribution channels. The cost of getting customers to switch was gigantic compared to the cost of just presenting them with your search engine first. The number of people using the Internet was growing by leaps and bounds then.
> There's still the possibility of someone upstaging Google, by building a search engine that not only indexes the Web, but has the reading comprehension to understand it, and understand queries from the context of gained knowledge.
That's been tried and failed. The technical difference didn't garner the market share needed to support it. I wouldn't say it is impossible for it to happen, but the odds are long, and ultimately the market largely does not appear to care.
> But you can't displace Google with a 2% improvement in results.
I guess it depends on how you are measuring 2% improvement, but by conventional metrics of the time, a 2% improvement now would be well neigh impossible to achieve. Again, that's part of the problem: the head of search engine queries have effectively been optimized to the point where there is little room for improvement beyond tiny fragments of the tail that amount to a percent or two of the average person's search history.
Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
The tech was "stolen" from HITS/IBM Research. Because of their success with their initial data center approach AltaVista was arguably one of the last to shift to a model that more closely resembled the one Google employed, but they certainly did a very fine job of it (late mover advantage and all that). I still liked AllTheWeb's data centers somewhat better, but at that point the differences were pretty small. I woul…
I worked at IBM TJ Watson research at the time. It's hard to "steal" from IBM, because at the time I was there, IBM's #1 problem was getting its research into the world. In 1996, I worked in a group on digital cash payment schemes, digital checking, years before PayPal, they had a trusted enclave (CITADEL PCMCIA card), we had a MIME plugin for Mosaic and Unix email that would do peer to peer digital money transfers,…
Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)
#210I worked at Yahoo! when this was going on, I’m amazed the share holders didn’t sue Jerry Yang and the board for avoiding this sale. Yahoo had very little of technological value and was actively trying to destroy its own search business amongst other properties at the time. They really were in a prime position and bungled it extremely badly, I think they had maybe 20% of the search market at the time. Carol Bartz late…
> She made it very clear the equation for success was money spent === great search engine results, ignoring how Google came into being in the first place. There's nothing inconsistent with the idea that a decade after Google established its extremely strong monopoly position in the search market, the barriers to entry, and the way to achieve success in the now established market are completely different than they wer…