Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all • Hacker News Board

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#201

Post by michaelmrose » Sun, May 02, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

Laarlf wrote: post #175

michaelmrose wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motorcycles are legal but if you commute and carry your kids around in them 100% of the time you may be choosing poorly. You moved the goalposts from a good choice to legally allowed.

You can pick old cars which are easy to fix and barely have any software. Old Volvos come to mind. They are also very safe, not just for their age. If safety is a primary concern you might consider something ridiculously massive like an F350. Those vehicles also don't have a lot of Software and with the weight and the size most modern SUVs with sleeping drivers will simply be consumed.

Modern cars crumple so that they absorb more of the energy of the collision sacrificing the car's body for your body. Massive vehicles of the antique era had a horrific safety record. People in fact used to believe that collisions at highway speed were unsurvivable by nature. People who imagine that having the heavier more rigid car renders them safer because their car will just go through the other car leaving them safe misunderstand physics and safety.

In the context of current cars classic volves are pretty garbage too. Here is a 90s volvo being absolutely smeared by a renault 10-20 years newer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7_H_aZtLl8

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#202

Post by coldtea » Sun, May 02, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #105

coldtea wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LMAO fail. Radio is optional as you can switch it off at any time, change the volume, is not imposed by the manufacturer, and you had the option to listen to your own cassetes and later CDs and digital for 50+ years.

You must not have exprienced modern vehicles. My 2013 Chysler Pacifica's factory headunit occasionally stops kicking the watchdog timer and gets rebooted. When that happens, the radio is still playing and can't be switched off or volume adjusted until the thing is done booting. So no, you can't switch it off at any time.

That would be the exception, not the rule with radio (that it would need to be, to justify using it as an example of a driving nuissance as the grandparent did).

And this exception points to the current trend for manufactured control + everything as a platform, so it can be seen as a further argument towards the point we're making here against this trend.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#203

Post by jacquesm » Sun, May 02, 2021, 6:49 PM UTC

phs wrote: post #195

jacquesm wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microwaves don't live forever (especially newer ones). At some point the choices will be: [ ] a connected microwave and [ ] no microwave Just like almost all newer cars now have some kind of wlan connection to the factory built in.

This twelve inch cast iron skillet, on the other hand, will last forever .

Yes, it likely will (unless you drop it, or quench it). But if you're careful with it it will last longer than anybody reading this. But just like car batteries: cast iron skillets rarely die, but lots of them are murdered.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#204

Post by spicybright » Sun, May 02, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

bsenftner wrote: post #169

kovac wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking the same too. Even for myself, I just own a laptop and a smart phone. If I could get rid of the phone I would. No smart watches, home automation devices, wearable fitness devices, none. I've used some of them at one point or another and in hindsight, while they did bring some benefit (mostly convenience), I found their privacy, financial, environmental costs to be just too high to justify the marginal…

Phones have become our ever present little snitch that tells the overlords every physical place you go, every place you surf, everyone you call, and the ambient conversations it picks up from people speaking near it. How we got here is called convenience, and the overlords know how to work that angle endlessly.

You can't deny the utility of a modern phone is high despite this.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#205

Post by agumonkey » Sun, May 02, 2021, 8:01 PM UTC

atat7024 wrote: post #100

agumonkey wrote: post #13

Smartphone already brought a kind of connection burden, now transport is next.. sociologically it's super weird. Can't wait to submit my new business idea to the next YC round: selling isolation.

So...executive real estate agent?

an improved version who ensures sound proof walls

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#206

Post by mastax » Sun, May 02, 2021, 8:40 PM UTC

maybelsyrup wrote: post #94

MrDresden wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is because we know how the sausage is made.

I keep waiting for someone to write a book about how often this is the case in different industries, areas of expertise, etc. It's a variation on the George Bernard Shaw thing: "every profession is a conspiracy against the laity". In my own profession I'm extremely wary of my peers and the services they provide for the simple fact that I know how much and how often things can go wrong, and when I've needed those serv…

"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices." - Adam Smith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75oun5gvDAU&t=324s

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#207

Post by jjav » Sun, May 02, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

Laarlf wrote: post #176

jawns wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, on the other hand, look forward to the day, probably not for at least 20-30 years from now, when all or virtually all vehicles are autonomous, and they're all constantly communicating with each other. Could you imagine the improvements in efficiency and traffic management? The vast reduction in accidents because someone forgot to use a turn signal or was following too closely? The marvelous freedom it would offer…

Do you work with software? Because you don't seem to be scared one bit. I don't see this becoming a thing anytime soon. Not just because of how horrible software is and how little it improves. In the last 20 years we barely had any improvements in what cars assist us with. The Mercedes Benz W220 from 1998 had active cruise control. And today modern active cruise control systems barely work better. Some cars can somet…

Agreed, I don't believe there will be any such autonomous coordinated cars in many decades. It is a seriously difficult problem for the general case. It's effectively AI and true AI has been just around the corner for many decades but never arrives.

For the happy path of interstates in good weather, sure, that's not too hard.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#208

Post by jjav » Sun, May 02, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

jawns wrote: post #187

Laarlf wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you work with software? Because you don't seem to be scared one bit. I don't see this becoming a thing anytime soon. Not just because of how horrible software is and how little it improves. In the last 20 years we barely had any improvements in what cars assist us with. The Mercedes Benz W220 from 1998 had active cruise control. And today modern active cruise control systems barely work better. Some cars can somet…

I think the closer we get to the point where all vehicles are autonomous, the easier it will get. The interim is the hard part. Right now autonomous vehicles have to be able to operate alongside human operators whose ability to communicate their intent is limited to brake lights and turn signals, and there is basically no way to cooperate. Now imagine a world where it's all autonomous vehicles who are constantly comm…

> I think the closer we get to the point where all vehicles are autonomous, the easier it will get.

The last 5% of anything is the hardest, and on this particular problem it's even harder.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#209

Post by jawns » Sun, May 02, 2021, 10:54 PM UTC

jjav wrote: post #208

jawns wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the closer we get to the point where all vehicles are autonomous, the easier it will get. The interim is the hard part. Right now autonomous vehicles have to be able to operate alongside human operators whose ability to communicate their intent is limited to brake lights and turn signals, and there is basically no way to cooperate. Now imagine a world where it's all autonomous vehicles who are constantly comm…

> I think the closer we get to the point where all vehicles are autonomous, the easier it will get. The last 5% of anything is the hardest, and on this particular problem it's even harder.

That's often true when you're talking about a single project with a clearly delineated end state, such as, "Build a responsive website for my coffee shop that works in all major desktop and mobile browsers."

But it's generally not true when you're talking about advances in technology and market dynamics where there are multiple inflection points. If I told you that the products Apple is planning to build over the next 3 years are going to be harder to build than anything it's built in the previous 45, simply because the last 5% of anything is the hardest, you'd probably say, "That's not what I mean!"

I think it's pretty obvious that building autonomous vehicles that can understand human driving behavior without direct communication is harder than building autonomous vehicles that only have to worry about other autonomous vehicles, with which they can communicate in data-rich ways. The fact that the former needs to happen before the latter because of market dynamics doesn't change the fact that it's a harder technological problem.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#210

Post by Laarlf » Mon, May 03, 2021, 12:35 AM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #201

Laarlf wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pick old cars which are easy to fix and barely have any software. Old Volvos come to mind. They are also very safe, not just for their age. If safety is a primary concern you might consider something ridiculously massive like an F350. Those vehicles also don't have a lot of Software and with the weight and the size most modern SUVs with sleeping drivers will simply be consumed.

Modern cars crumple so that they absorb more of the energy of the collision sacrificing the car's body for your body. Massive vehicles of the antique era had a horrific safety record. People in fact used to believe that collisions at highway speed were unsurvivable by nature. People who imagine that having the heavier more rigid car renders them safer because their car will just go through the other car leaving them…

A few months ago i had an accident in a "90s Volvo". A Volvo 850 to be exact. A Toyota Aygo got into my lane on a country road. A car that is 15 years newer in design and is also considerably lighter than the Volvo. It was basically a head on impact at about 70-80 km/h(where 100 is allowed, i braked quite a bit). While i didn't walk away because of the shock, i could. I had no injuries apart from scuff marks and my right leg hurt slightly but the doctors didn't find anything and the pain went away hours after the incident. The Toyota driver was not that well off. Quite a few broken bones and he was totally trapped in the car. After that incident, i surely know what car to purchase. And i did.

I think that video is about the 940 vs the modus from fifth gear. I won't watch the 15 minute video to find a few seconds of crash test buried somewhere. If that is the crash test from Fifth gear: that Volvo 940 had the engine removed. Usually cars who have crashes have engines.

Unsafe at any speed. By Ralph Nader. A guy who wrote a book about the safety of cars while not having a drivers license. The discussion the book started was good, the book itself was not. You cannot really complain about safety features being an option instead of included by default if you don't pick them. And yes, rear wheel drive requires some driving skills to master. If you don't want to learn, get a chauffeur or a car more fit to your skills.