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U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crackdown

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crackdown

#201

Post by zepto »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #36
jiofih wrote: post #16

The top 10 tech companies have collectively acquired and shut down hundreds of small, successful startups. I believe this is very detrimental to the web and the economy. Founders need to have that as an option for an exit though. What are the alternatives? Limiting ownership to 49%?

>Founders need to have that as an option for an exit though. What are the alternatives? Limiting ownership to 49%? No they don't. To rephrase, you're suggesting that companies are entitled to getting bought out. That's ridiculous. Owning a company is a privilege, people who abuse that privilege, billionaires, should be stripped of that power. Corporate America is cancerous, consuming and destroying everything indiscr…

> Owning a company is a privilege.

A privilege you think should be held by the government?

Re: U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crackdown

#202

Post by twobitshifter »

capableweb wrote: post #23
heavenlyblue wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is Apple allowed to disallow any other web browsers on their mobile devices? They now allow it by the way. I don't know why. I am using Firefox on iOS and it was supported for at least half a year AFAIK. Your point still stands obviously.

I should have been more clear. I'm not talking about the "browser shell" (the UI for tabs, settings and so on) but about the "rendering engine" which in the case of Firefox is Gecko on PC, but since Apple has this arbitrary restriction, is Webkit on iOS, which is the same engine everyone on iOS is forced to use, no matter what. So yes, you're using Firefox, but you're still using the same rendering engine for your br…

On Desktop, how many rendering engines are there out there today? 3? Most browser creators cannot afford to create their own rendering engine, so we get Gecko, WebKit, or Blink.

With this in mind, when you’re asking for alternative rendering engines, you’re really asking for Google to be able to get their hooks into iOS. It would be nice if Mozilla were free to develop their own engine but that’s not without downside and the most likely outcome is an iOS dominated by Chrome and ad-tracking.

Re: U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crackdown

#203

Post by zepto »

ohashi wrote: post #68
the-dude wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what happened?

What sector does Microsoft dominate these days? They actually are pretty good at competing. Major units at Microsoft: OS. This one is old, gone through anti trust stuff already. There's Mac / Linux. Cloud. Azure is competing against AWS, GCP, everyone else. Gaming. Xbox has Sony and Nintendo. The strongest monopoly argument is still operating system/office, but even that Google is eroding away at office. The server m…

> OS. This one is old, gone through anti trust stuff already. There's Mac / Linux.

Ok but by that argument, Apple wouldn’t be considered dominant either.

Re: U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crackdown

#204

Post by zepto »

baq wrote: post #198
zepto wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an example of poor service. Not them harming consumers. Do you know whether Walmart.com or Aliexpress are any better?

actively looking the other way in presence of fraud on your platform is only 'poor service'? goalposts moved to the moon.

Are they “actively looking the other way”, or is it just hard to detect when there is so much money involved?

Re: U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crackdown

#205

Post by insert_coin »

kube-system wrote: post #161
skystarman wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft and Bell were successfully sued using existing antitrust law because they WERE harming consumers. So again, how is Amazon hurting consumers?

They are using their power to force competitors out of the market. That's what antitrust is about anyway -- it's not really about how happy customers are. "We're the best!" is easy to say when you've decimated any potential rivals.

> They are using their power to force competitors out of the market.

Everyone does this, it is called competition.

Re: U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crackdown

#207

Post by jjk166 »

capableweb wrote: post #47
ericmay wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it more competition? You’ll visit at most what 2 of those stores looking for a product? I can use plugins in a web browser to effectively visit 100 stores to shop for the best price on an item. Amazon is just another vendor. -edit- To add to this. If you want to compare to Amazon then you have to look at the market share and revenue of those stores too. Not simply their existence. It doesn't matter if an ACE h…

> I can use plugins in a web browser to effectively visit 100 stores to shop for the best price on an item. Amazon is just another vendor. Sure you could, but is that how most users use the web? According to Statista (2019 - https://www.statista.com/statistics/955796/global-amazon-e-c... ) [same link I put before], over 50% of the market is just Amazon, even though it's soooo easy to chose another one. Since they now…

It doesn't matter what percentage of people choose an option so long as competing options are readily available. The fact is Amazon can't abuse it's position and raise prices dramatically or severely reduce service or otherwise take advantage of a captive market because the market is not captive.

Re: U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crackdown

#208

Post by darksaints »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #11
capableweb wrote: post #5

> potentially barring companies like Amazon.com from operating the markets in which they also compete Absolutely bananas that this haven't been fixed yet! How can Google own the entire ads market and still be allowed to compete in it? Obviously for-profit companies will abuse their positions if it'll earn them more money, and fines ends up being the cost of doing business instead of deterrents. How is Apple allowed t…

> How can Amazon be allowed to sell competing products in their own marketplace, when they own the actual marketplace? They should have been forced to divide their busin Depends on how you define “marketplace”. Costco/Walmart/Best Buy/Target/Home Depot/Lowe’s/grocery stores all sell their own brands next to competing brands in their stores. Is their one store the marketplace? It takes considerably more effort to go t…

All of those companies buy their inventory and take on the full risk of potentially not selling it. They're retailers, not marketplaces.

Re: U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crackdown

#209

Post by jjk166 »

simion314 wrote: post #137
ericmay wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t view the link without paying unless you are simply showing that Amazon has 13% of the global e-commerce market and 50%~ of the U.S. market. To answer your question - it doesn’t matter. We don’t determine monopolies simply because of market share. If we did, why aren’t we filing another anti-trust investigation against Microsoft and Windows? The point anyway is that people have no switching cost. Amazon faces…

>Apple I’m not sure how they’ve even been in the discussion Remember that Apple and Google pulled a legal app from their stores, regular Apple users (like 50% of US) can't install stuff on their device without Apple parental approval and the "make it a website argument also fails because Apple is does not let you install a better browser". 50% still affects a lot of people, though Apple fanboys will attempt to say is…

> "make it a website argument also fails because Apple is does not let you install a better browser".

I'm currently on chrome on my iphone. Maybe you can't install arbitrary browsers, but you can certainly install different ones. And there's always jailbreaking.

Re: U.S. House committee approves blueprint for Big Tech crackdown

#210

Post by insert_coin »

Renaud wrote: post #200
skystarman wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard for antitrust enforcement for decades has been when the action of a company harms consumers. How does Amazon harm consumers? I mean precisely, how? Amazon is one of the most highly rated companies in the US by its customers. Its NPS score is 69 and 70 is considered "world class". I can get almost anything online shipped to my house the SAME DAY. If Amazon sends you the wrong item they'll let you keep the…

>How does Amazon harm consumers? I mean precisely, how? but burying alternatives, they basically drive smaller product competitors away, reducing their sales and their ability to grow and innovate. Amazon has been blatantly copying products that other brand sold, and made them cheaper. Great for consumers if the only thing you care about it price. Because the game is getting rigged and Amazon products will always be…

The same things were said against Walmart, the exact same arguments word for word.

And yet we saw the rise of independent stores, gentrification, Whole Foods, the rise of e-commerce, the rise of etsy, amazon, ali, ebay, the rise of the Apple Store, the rise of...

And then we saw an explosion of "third party" brands. Millions and millions of alternatives flooded the market despite Walmart "undercutting everyone of their suppliers". From soda to nailclippers, to phone cases to chairs, to spoons, to...everything. Despite all the fear mongering, today there is not a single product category where only one brand exists, there is not a single product category where only the Walmart brand exists.

Competition cannot be stopped, the business cycle cannot be stopped. Birth, growth, death, repeat. Amazon is huge today because Walmart was so huge before it; people actively went out of their way to avoid it just out of spite.

Competition cannot be stopped, except by regulations. Give amazon by law a pen to play in and you are making sure they'll never let anyone else in.

Things never stay as they are, and retail has never been so competitive. Amazon won't be top dog forever, just as Sears wasn't, just as Walmart wasn't. Just as the mighty GE wasn't, or the even mightier East India Co. wasn't.

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