34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work • Hacker News Board

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#201

Post by foobiekr » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

52-6F-62 wrote: post #60

Alupis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

I don't think it's about forcing anyone to work remotely, it's about being allowed to continue and not being forced to go back to commute times and water coolers. My employer is in an industry that thrived on in-person interactions (save for any field writers/photogs). They had no remote working policy prior to the pandemic for the bulk of the staff. They have made a complete 180° change on that and acknowledged that…

The problem is the current situation is not reflective of real remote work.

One of the biggest advocates of remote work that I know is squarely someone for whom “remote work” has meant “running errands, walking the dog, heading out early for dinner, long lunches, runs after lunch” and so on. He’s much much more productive WAH this year than he was any of the last five years because all of these non-work activities have been actively suppressed.

That’s not going to last. The reality of the last 12 months is work has expanded to fill most daylight hours, meetings at 7am, meetings in the same day at 9pm, and so on. It’s not going to be possible to measure full-time remote this year until things start to open up.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#202

Post by maxharris » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

Jommi wrote: post #189

maxharris wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely Given the fact that forklift operators have been driving forklifts remotely during the pandemic, this is not hard to imagine at all: the present reality is that warehouses are being managed remotely. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54431056 In addition to this, there are now many companies in the warehouse robotics space, all of whom are more than happy to provide robot…

What are some cool companies in this space?

6 River Systems

Fetch

Geek+

Fabric

Locus Robotics

Logiwa

RightHand Robotics

Amazon Robotics (formed out of Kiva Systems, for the exclusive use of Amazon)

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#203

Post by Andrew_nenakhov » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #121

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #83

I prefer working from the office. And people who code form their laptops from cafés, really? You would spend hours looking at a small 15" screen, straining your neck and back, instead of comfortably using dual-monitor setup and a comfortable chair in the office? Or you like working at home, near your home fridge and playing active kids? Definitely not my cup of tea.

> You would spend hours looking at a small 15" screen, straining your neck and back, instead of comfortably using dual-monitor setup and a comfortable chair in the office? Yes. I code the best on a shitty laptop with a small screen with no GPU. I'm not kidding, the more plain my computer is the better for programming. > Or you like working at home, near your home fridge and playing active kids? Yes that's annoying. B…

Sorry for that fridge, but sitting all day looking down at the screen is not healthy. Most ergonomic way to use screens is using a strictly vertical screen, the top of the screen must be on the same level as your eyes. Other ways are guaranteed to give neck problems and headaches in a few years.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#204

Post by silicon2401 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

incrudible wrote: post #180

aroundtown wrote: post #132

Give me a dedicated office with a door that can shut, allow me to commute during off-peak rush hours, and raise my pay or shorten my work hours for the same rate... then we will talk about coming back in. Currently: I have an dedicated office at home, I can shut my door and work when I need to be distraction free. I don't have my head pinched by headphones for hours, and I can work in silence like I prefer. No cowork…

> Give me a dedicated office with a door that can shut, allow me to commute during off-peak rush hours, and raise my pay or shorten my work hours for the same rate... then we will talk about coming back in. If you can talk like that post-pandemic, why couldn't you walk like that pre-pandemic? You could've had a remote job then, too. I do like remote work, but it's not all upsides. If there's a big shift to remote wor…

Personally I'd gladly take a pay cut for a fully remote job. Even SV salaries can't pay for the option to fully wfh if they choose to

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#205

Post by Teknoman117 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

tezzer wrote: post #167

FredPret wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a bigger house/condo with an office an option? If you can work remotely, why live (I’m assuming) in a city that is expensive because it was built around an in-person existence?

I don't think I want to pay for a bigger house; I already pay to be close to work. I've never had more than a 15 minute commute, and that has occasionally been an expensive policy! I don't like co-opting my living space for work. It clutters things physically and mentally.

I'm in the same boat, and I pay a bit extra to live walking distance from my office.

I detest working from home full time. It used to be a clear mental distinction between "this is my safe space where I don't worry about work" and "this is where I'm putting all of this time slice into work". I've done little personal development and I'm stressed all of the time because I don't feel comfortable at home anymore.

I'm glad WFH is being more recognized in that if there's a day I'm not feeling great but am still okay to work, I don't have to deal with going into the office. I'm hopeful that I can take a WFH day when I need one, but I am not going to work remote full time.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#206

Post by cyberlurker » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

aroundtown wrote: post #132

Give me a dedicated office with a door that can shut, allow me to commute during off-peak rush hours, and raise my pay or shorten my work hours for the same rate... then we will talk about coming back in. Currently: I have an dedicated office at home, I can shut my door and work when I need to be distraction free. I don't have my head pinched by headphones for hours, and I can work in silence like I prefer. No cowork…

“ I don't have to keep up appearances when I'm done with my work for the day or moment. If I'm waiting for responses or reviews, I can veg out, watch Netflix or play a video game, while staying on top of my email and work load. I've also taken to getting some of my house work done during this time. Laundry, mowed grass, exercise, lots of little things that used to get stacked up on the weekend.”

Agreed on pretty much everything. And this quoted part for many will increase productivity. But management often views this “gasp, going for a walk while I wait for someone to send me something” as time that could have been spent working.

The arguments for forcing everyone who is fully functional remotely back into the office are so shallow it pains me. I get it, some people have personal circumstances that make office work better for them. I guess we will just self sort into different companies and see which is better. My money is on smart people with more freedom over smart people micro managed by the clueless.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#207

Post by VBprogrammer » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

g051051 wrote: post #111

MattGaiser wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now But your need for an instant answer often derails my work flow. I can get a lot more done now that I am not being interrupted as frequently and can address questions once I have wrapped up what I am doing or at least have time to write down where specifically I stopped.

> your need for an instant answer often derails my work flow. This! The office paradigm values everyone else's time over my time. It paints interruption as a virtue. My last employer (before COVID) cancelled all WFH with the statement "We all know a 15 minute face-to-face conversation is better than a 3 day email chain". What about the other 99% of my time? Any time saved by that 15 minutes interaction is dwarfed by…

I haven't see anyone mention, not only are you disrupting the person you have turned around to ask a question but likely 3-4 people in the immediate vicinity. Depending on your office layout and the loudness of your conversation maybe even more.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#208

Post by devilduck » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

annoyingnoob wrote: post #144

When can we talk about a 6 hour work day?

As soon as we can talk about all the type-A personalities that are working to ensure we will grind ourselves to death

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#209

Post by polymeris » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #82

sokoloff wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are specifically they blocking you, or are you stuck in general and they're the closest SWE? In the first case, it does seem a lot more reasonable to interrupt and trade-off the productivity of the blocker in favor of the blockee. At worst, that's an even trade and at best it incentivizes not being a blocker. In the second case, I'd rather not create a distributed denial of concentration scenario for SWEs who are rar…

Disagree. Unless the world is on fire there's no reason to interrupt someone to unblock yourself. Contact them asynchronously or opportunistically. If you see them in the kitchenette getting coffee then sure, ask. If they are walking back from the bathroom, sure, grab them before they resume work. But do not delude yourself into thinking you know more about prioritizing their time than they do.

I agree in principle, but also find myself often doing my best thinking when making coffee or just "idly" staring out of a window, and would find it annoying to be interrupted just because I'm not at my desk. Luckily I work from home.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#210

Post by foobiekr » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

ironmagma wrote: post #171

Alupis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

My CEO sent out a company wide email admitting we had succeeded in becoming a remote company, and proceeded to tell us remote work is not an option going forward. So... no.

It would be amazing to see such an email. Did anyone challenge it?