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The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

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Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#201

Post by roenxi »

edf13 wrote: post #194
vimax wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might care more once laws start protecting children from those in power more than used by those in power as a ploy to dismantle privacy from ordinary people.

There should be no upper level you start caring about child protection - every level counts, whether it is a hosting company or others high up

The link between the production of child porn and child protection is crystal clear.

The link between hosting child porn and child protection is much more subject to argument. I'd suggest it is banned because enough people suspect the link to be there, not because of any certainty.

It is unfortunately common for terrible ideas to be shepherded in under the pretence of thinking about the children. There needs to be debate about costs and benefits of this stuff beyond the crystal clear parts. It isn't reasonable to just assume someone doesn't care about protecting children just because they're willing to host anything. Although in this case they are being rather disrespectful to the people who use the form and that doesn't sit well with me.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#202

Post by mdpopescu »

InCoffeeWeTrust wrote: post #130

Almost every entity has oversight measures implemented to safeguard it from criminal negligence. The laws in the Netherlands need to be updated to ensure that data hosting centres and their owners can't get away with criminal negligence. And to everyone complaining about this with a "but my free speech" excuse - there are extensive legal procedures which ensure that allegations of criminal negligence are conducted op…

> But the answer is not to stop having laws.

Why?

Serious question. When are laws too many? (According to some history, 10 laws were too many and most people were ignoring them.)

Are a trillion laws too many? A billion? A million? A thousand? What if we had a thousand laws, but each law had a million pages?

(I'm pretty sure we're at over a billion pages of laws if we take into account all the laws in the world - as multinational companies are supposed to do.)

When, exactly, should we say "this is excessive"?

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#203

Post by 0dayz »

kome wrote: post #78
orhmeh09 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a hotspot for drugs trafficking, yet with a pristine official record of corruption, ranking as one of the ten least corrupt countries in the world. These seem incongruous, somehow.

often northern Europe is like this... or Switzerland. I have seen incredible stuff in Switzerland.

What are you saying? That criminal gangs are rampant in Switzerland or that the Swiss do incredibly well in fighting corruption?

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#204

Post by sandworm101 »

inter_netuser wrote: post #47
Grollicus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people would find a way to monetize obviously false DMCA requests. I know of some people who basically finance their niche bulletin boards via police requests - they get something in the range of 2-3 digits (€) for a information request. Get a few of these a year and your hosting costs are paid. There's not a lot of money to be made but if it's your hobby anyways..

They get paid by the police? Is there a pricelist somewhere for these police requests?

18 U.S. Code CHAPTER 121—STORED WIRE AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS AND TRANSACTIONAL RECORDS ACCESS

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2706

"...this title shall pay to the person or entity assembling or providing such information a fee for reimbursement for such costs as are reasonably necessary and which have been directly incurred in searching for, assembling, reproducing, or otherwise providing such information."

Not your lawyer. Just providing a link to an example law describing how some ISPs can profit from data requests.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#205

Post by luckylion »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #71
polishdude20 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm considering the previous posters comment on how the users who post illegal materials should be responsible, not the platform. But yeah that makes sense. In this case it would be as if the city knew about the child pornography on the street but decided not to do anything about it.

But also the city is required to check all the light poles for CP constantly.

Not really. More like the city rents out the light poles to companies who can staple messages to them. Some companies put up CP. The city then tries their best to not shut them down, and protects these companies because they pay rates that are way above market. I.e. the "not taking it down" is part of the deal.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#206

Post by mdpopescu »

dang wrote: post #191
obedm wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"images of child abuse are not child abuse". Right. Because those images were just created magically? Someone took them. And there's a market for them. If there's no market for such pictures, likely less children will suffer the consequences. Fighting the crime directly is important, but so is doing it indirectly. Read about the suicide rates in the UK by women before and after the country changed the type of gas sto…

Please don't perpetuate flamewars on HN. They're tedious and nasty and we're trying for curious conversation. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Seriously, stop with this crap. The people on this forums are some of the people who have the know-how to actually DO something about the internet. If they can't discuss these things, we get the situation that your company seems to like - SV decides what's allowed on the internet and what's not. Those of us outside of the US don't like it very much, and we'd prefer to - you know - talk about it.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#207

Post by rowanG077 »

tgv wrote: post #200
rowanG077 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes definitely. It seems to me the hoster does everything that is required of it by law. Child porn is horrible but that doesn't mean the hoster should be responsible of policing the servers. Law enforcement must go after the person who rented the server. That is the source of the problem. Going after the hoster is nothing but symptom relief.

That position is too naive to be honest.

I think the reverse is too naive. We see the exact abhorrent results that occurs when hosters are made liable. Look at youtube for example. There is no novel content any more. Everything that could offend someone is removes or demonitized.

What good does forcing a hoster to police their content? Do you think child porn will suddenly not exist anymore? Do you think child porn producer think "oh no, my website was taken down. Oh well I better stop doing this and get a stand up job."

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#208

Post by athrowaway3z »

InCoffeeWeTrust wrote: post #130

Almost every entity has oversight measures implemented to safeguard it from criminal negligence. The laws in the Netherlands need to be updated to ensure that data hosting centres and their owners can't get away with criminal negligence. And to everyone complaining about this with a "but my free speech" excuse - there are extensive legal procedures which ensure that allegations of criminal negligence are conducted op…

Free speech is important as you state so yourself. You seem to fundamentally misunderstand one of the most important WHY of the "digital free speech" argument.

Technologically the state can't enforce it. So if you get your wish you made a law that only spies on law-abiding citizens.

In your plea we can simply start here:

"data centres to be aware of the content which is hosted"

Is the datacenter responsible for the content MyImages.rar? What if its password protected? What if everybody knows the password?

---

Any 'techinical' solution will require extremely complex infrastructure, laws, and safeguards. A never ending bureaucratic nightmare of "does this cross the line"? and it only force the bad guys to throw the needle in a different hay stack. ( And make it more difficult for the government hackers to watch the bad guys )

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#209

Post by the-dude »

tgv wrote: post #198
fireeyed wrote: post #9

The hosting company could be a cesspool but I just checked one of the news blog site the article attributed to ‘right wing radicals’. The content looks like Dutch version of Buzzfeed or TMZ https://vizieroplinks.org/

It tries to smear left-wing people with some public visibility, in several cases showing pictures their houses, complete with a description of the location, just short of the actual address. They've also left stickers near these houses saying "location under observation". It's political intimidation.

I agree it is political intimidation. However, what comes around goes around.

I am not pro Vizier op Links, but I welcome the balance.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#210

Post by xur17 »

petre wrote: post #187
xur17 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, we shouldn't have to worry about publishing those, but banks like to use them as "proof of identity" for some stupid reason, so sharing them can cause problems.

Would you'd rather they used biometrics, DNA included, instead?

No.
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