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Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#201

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

apercu wrote: post #100

It feels like in order to have this conversation intelligently, we all need to me on the same page about how royalties work, and the difference in royalty types (at least mechanical vs performance royalties).

From the comments I've read so far, I'd say next to nobody here knows the split difference between record contracts and publishing contracts.

Here's how it was when I studied this 15 years ago.

In a traditional big four record contract, the artist (which for a band like Korn is five people), the record label gets 92% and the artist gets 8% (to split between them), but that's only on domestic (US) sales. On international sales the split is worse at 96%/4%. The artist would typically also pay for any damaged product, which mattered more in the case of shellac records as they are more brittle and broke more often.

For a publishing contract there's more variance in the split but it would typically be more like 60/40.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#202

Post by gen220 »

analog31 wrote: post #77
S_A_P wrote: post #54

It seems as though this is not a well understood issue from reading the comments here. This isn’t artists doing interviews and saying “I wrote this”. The problem is that the artists are bullying their way into getting points for the song writing credits (publishing royalties) when they had little(change a word in the lyrics) or no input into the song. I fully support artists getting as much of the live performance/me…

Indeed, and it goes back before Elvis. Screwing popular songwriters of their royalties has been a fixture of the music business since time immoral. From what I've read, Jelly Roll Morton's publisher added his own lyrics to Morton's instrumental tunes, to get a cut of the royalties. And it goes back before the recording industry. Before the phonograph, the "music business" was sheet music, there were "stars," and shee…

An interesting correlation is that songwriters used to be popularly-famous. Cole Porter, George Gershwin, Irving Berlin stick out.

But I can't confidently name a single songwriter from the last 50 years, aside from the ones that were predominantly popular performers and recorded-music artists (Roger Waters, Lennon/McCartney, James Taylor).

To me, not knowing any better, this suggests that songwriters had more economic self-determination within the music industry, which translates into influence and cachet, in the 1920s than they do in the 2020s.

Today, again as an outsider, it seems like publishers and managers have an outsized influence, because they control the economics more than any other entity in the system.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#203

Post by intrasight »

cestith wrote: post #44
intrasight wrote: post #21

My opinion is that they shouldn't care and in fact have no basis to complain. I consider it "work for hire", and they are being paid handsomely for their work. Do we developers complain when, if we work for Apple, that Apple takes credit for our work?

Most songwriters write songs then shop them around. They're not typically freelancers writing a song for an act for pay. They're like small software shops writing source code, and then the company that licenses that code, compiles it, and sells it is wanting a copyright on the source and royalties on other licenses sold.

You get whatever you and your legal team negotiate. Just like in any other business contract.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#204

Post by renewiltord »

racl101 wrote: post #191

I always wondered why we reward vapid pop star hacks who can't do anything without a freaking team of people doing everything for them. Like Britney Spears for example, can't play instrument, can barely sing, can barely dance, needs a choreographer, can't write music nor lyrics. And I'm not talking about Britney Spears now, I'm talking in her prime. All she really brought to the table was her looks and ok singing abi…

Well, because I like the finished product. Big fan of the Britney songs. Great end product. I don't need John Williams to have grown the tree and cut the wood to make the guitar that he plays Asturias on.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#205

Post by thanhhaimai »

Johnny555 wrote: post #189
rgifford wrote: post #175

A friend of mine decided to pursue music production around the same time I started in software engineering. We're both 20 somethings. We swap war stories now and then. I get to hear about how he's working with his mentor to do vocal production on a track getting pitched for Maroon 5, The Chainsmokers, etc. Sometimes the tracks take -- the artist likes them and decides to move forward. Usually they don't and it's a lo…

He moved to WA to dodge CA income tax If he waited for the big check before he made that move, CA will find him - it's not where you live when you got the check, it's where you live when you earned it.

+1, moving intentionally to avoid this is asking for a lot of trouble, especially for a bill that large. I hope he consulted his financial advisors.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#206

Post by Wohlf »

dfxm12 wrote: post #13

They added that composers were often subjected to "bully tactics and threats" by artists and executives who wanted to take a share of the songwriting royalties. Ultimately, I wonder where the money ends up between the artist and the executive. This article (not the pact's message) seems to be unfairly framing this as writers vs artists, but the real bad guy could be some suit at UMI or EMG... It sucks for the writers…

After a certain level of fame, the artists are CEOs of their own brand.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#207

Post by lenzm »

hashkb wrote: post #116
mewse-hn wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lady Gaga has chops and is a real artist. This is a video of her performing an original composition in college: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM51qOpwcIM

No argument there. Does she credit her songwriters? Is it well known that she doesn't write 100%? Or does that not matter to anyone because she's so awesome?

> "I have worked with and written with some UNREAL artists who let me into their lives to create with them who deserved their credit and publishing, ..."

I think most people think she falls under this category.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#208

Post by lostlogin »

oytis wrote: post #95
analog31 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and it goes back before Elvis. Screwing popular songwriters of their royalties has been a fixture of the music business since time immoral. From what I've read, Jelly Roll Morton's publisher added his own lyrics to Morton's instrumental tunes, to get a cut of the royalties. And it goes back before the recording industry. Before the phonograph, the "music business" was sheet music, there were "stars," and shee…

> since time immoral I like this typo.

Me too - but what would it mean? A long time or a short time?

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#209

Post by cestith »

intrasight wrote: post #203
cestith wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most songwriters write songs then shop them around. They're not typically freelancers writing a song for an act for pay. They're like small software shops writing source code, and then the company that licenses that code, compiles it, and sells it is wanting a copyright on the source and royalties on other licenses sold.

You get whatever you and your legal team negotiate. Just like in any other business contract.

Yes, and when you regularly ask too much of the other party in those negotiations they band together and ask you to stop. Much like what's happening in the story.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#210

Post by andrewzah »

BurningFrog wrote: post #194
andrewzah wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Now anyone can record high quality music at home." Eh, to an extent. Audio production is a highly involved process. Few people have the equipment and knowledge to mic instruments & track sound properly, mix audio properly, apply professional-level production, master the tracks properly, master the album properly... It's not as easy as having a computer and some software. You can get a pretty good sound at home now f…

"Anyone" was a poor word choice. I meant more "any supremely talented musician". A few decades ago, even the greatest talents in the world needed a recording contract to reach a large audience, and that went through a few large companies. Today that still helps to get the best equipment and the best people working on your stuff. But you can also record in a home studio with better tech than The Beatles ever had acces…

"A few decades ago, even the greatest talents in the world needed a recording contract to reach a large audience, and that went through a few large companies."

Ah yeah, this I do agree with. With today's tech it's relatively easy to get youtube/soundcloud-grade quality. It's not super cheap but one can get by with a decent camera, a decent usb interface like a scarlett 2i2, and a mic or two depending on the instrument.

It's never been easier to get discovered thanks to soundcloud, youtube, instagram, etc. Very different from having to play gigs at the right places (sometimes for a long time!) and hope one gets discovered by someone there. I was thinking more of professional studio albums.

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