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'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

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Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-... This is a fantastic read.

I knew this was going to be posted. I've been thinking about this post for a decade now and I can't help but feel that, although it does reflect part of reality, the Gervais Principle is overly cynical in my opinion, and those who adopt the view will have it compounded by confirmation bias because it is partially true. The things described happen at toxic organizations but the author leaves no room for honest positiv…

An alt-side is never ending pleasure of closing laptop at the bell .. in anticipation of bbq, wine, family, and friends. Knowing fully well it’s ephemeral. IMO there is no doom and gloom in this view.

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#202
post #71

No way a company with the resources of Amazon is using several day old twitter accounts with first google result profile pictures. This is the equivalent of someone spray painting "We hate workers! signed, Amazon" on a wall I don't think even twitter can verify who made those accounts because it's so easy to vpn and use google voice numbers. You can choose what to believe, though

> No way a company with the resources of Amazon is using several day old twitter accounts

I guess you haven't seen this tweet:

https://twitter.com/amazonnews/status/1374911222361956359

Real people work for Amazon. They can be just as stupid as the rest of us.

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For decades, I never thought people who kiss ass could have been serious. I was sure they were just cynically playing a game of advancement, and I despised them for it. What I've come to learn -- as disappointing as it is to me -- is that some people view this sort of thing as actual, legitimate opportunity, and are acting out of internal integrity. They don't see the hypocrisy of the power imbalance and how the comp…

This rings so true and is seen in a lot of other industries as well. I believe the world of gaming is among the worst for this where hordes of customers ardently defend the clearly abusive practices of multinational companies that do not give the slightest shit about them except their influence on their bottom line. Gamers find it easier to be up in arms about journalists being bad at video games and women having too…

> Gamers find it easier to be up in arms about journalists being bad at video games and women having too many opinions on their hobby

Why lump real concerns in with blatant sexism?

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-... This is a fantastic read.

I knew this was going to be posted. I've been thinking about this post for a decade now and I can't help but feel that, although it does reflect part of reality, the Gervais Principle is overly cynical in my opinion, and those who adopt the view will have it compounded by confirmation bias because it is partially true. The things described happen at toxic organizations but the author leaves no room for honest positiv…

I have been 'studying' Dilbert since the first time I laid eyes on it/him 20 years ago.

This cartoon prepares you for life in large-corp environments. I've seen so many (real life) scenarios play out exactly as some of Dilbert's (and the other chars) stories.

Edit: for clarity, the article does refer to "The Dilbert Principle".

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#205
Twitter just masquarades as legitimate communication, but more than half ot is is fake, bots, trolls, 'influencers' and psycos.

How does civilised society survive if 90% of our communication go online to platforms like this?

This cannot continue, there must be real consequences for puposeful mass deception.

I have recently gone through some of my old tweets where I replied (respectfully) to some climate deniers and fairly far right-wing accounts. All those posts are now deleted or the accounts have been closed. Where they all fake bot accounts? Who did I reply to? Did it even matter?

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#206
post #43

Imagine being worth 185 billion dollars and still obsessing about your workers advocating for better pay and conditions? What a miserable existence that must be. Bezos has always struck me as a man who cares about nothing else only his own personal wealth and success. There is no joy in his life.

Imagine building a company from the ground up that is succesfull solely because it produces a lot of value to people, and yet random people on the internet still think all you care about is hoarding money and think they can make better decisions than you. Here is the summary of the issue. Firstly, pre-pandemic, unemployment was at an alltime low (and its trending that way to as places are reopening), very close to fr…

Writing off legitimate complaints about working conditions at Amazon–which are, in fact, widespread–as "outrage of internet leftism" is dismissive and plain incorrect. [1]

By what definition of "free market" is unionization fairly characterized as "messing with" said market? Isn't the idea of the free market that actors within that market have the opportunity to use resources and organize resources the way they see fit? It seems your definition of "free market" only permits corporations latitude in making meaningful choices, but employees and consumers none whatsoever.

[1] https://www.nlrb.gov/search/case/AMAZON.COM%20SERVICES%20LLC

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#207
post #43

Imagine being worth 185 billion dollars and still obsessing about your workers advocating for better pay and conditions? What a miserable existence that must be. Bezos has always struck me as a man who cares about nothing else only his own personal wealth and success. There is no joy in his life.

Imagine building a company from the ground up that is succesfull solely because it produces a lot of value to people, and yet random people on the internet still think all you care about is hoarding money and think they can make better decisions than you. Here is the summary of the issue. Firstly, pre-pandemic, unemployment was at an alltime low (and its trending that way to as places are reopening), very close to fr…

> This in turn means that the pay that people recieve is worth whatever the working conditions are, and people can quit and go find easier job at any time.

Sounds easy but I assume it isn't so much. Applying regular market rules to the job market is misguided. First, people need a job to live. If all available offers are starvation wages, people can't just say "well I won't work for this". Second, changing job is a big risk regarding healthcare and job security. Some people might prefer lower pay but higher stability rather than slightly higher pay but with a high risk of being fired. Third, different people have different jobs available. For unskilled labor there will always be more people than jobs, and there will always be people that need a job now doing whatever so they don't lose their home. That will push wages down even in an environment of low unemployment.

> Secondly, the number of reports of poor working conditions are far and few in between.

There are quite a lot of reports in multiple countries and outlets. Taking into account that it's not easy for workers to put their story out there and that they take a risk by doing so, I wouldn't dismiss the evidence so quickly.

> When workers realize they can take it easy and keep their jobs, productivity will go down.

Or go up. Evidence is mixed and depends on the setting. It's not "undoubtely".

> While its true that worker conditions will improve, the problem is along will come Walmart thats not as much in the spotlight, and offer better service and shipping while having shit working conditions,

Walmart employees could make an union too.

> Unionization is messing with the free market, which never leads to good outcomes historically.

Things unions have historically done (some of them haven't reached yet the US precisely because of the lack of unionization):

- Limit weekly working hours. - Weekends - Paid vacations. - Protect workers in bad situations (pregnancy, disability, injuries).

That's just in general. Go into actual unions and see what things they do.

Also, they're not messing with the free market. The job market is not a free market, there's an extreme asymmetry of power and information between a worker and a company. Most workers can't afford to lose their jobs, most companies can afford to lose a worker. By splitting workers they can apply individual pressure to gain an advantage that they couldn't get if workers actually coordinated. Unions restore the power balance and give workers the power to negotiate the conditions in an equal setting.

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#208
post #7
post #3

I feel like authenticity of online communication is an unsolved problem. The web was supposed to be a democratizing platform: all you need to communicate with the world is an ISP and a keyboard. But if there's no way to control for authenticity, online sentiment will just be an arms race for who can pay for the best astroturfing.

Yes, and if you are somewhat tech savvy OR "grew up" on the internet (say 40 and younger) you understand this. The problem is previous generations who don't really understand this. Perhaps one angle to tackle the problem is to educate the group(s) of people who continue to believe whatever they read on Twitter, Facebook, etc.

Vernor Vinge is 76 years old and outlined the issue of identity in the online world in his short story "True Names" waaay back in 1981.

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#209

This old TechCrunch article from 2018 ( https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/23/what-is-this-weird-twitter... ) posted at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26636153 has a former "Amazon Ambassador" actually explain that job: > An actual former ambassador and three year Florida warehouse veteran Chris Grantham explained it in more detail to Yahoo Finance’s Krystal Hu, who shared the information with TechCrunch: >> When I…

For decades, I never thought people who kiss ass could have been serious. I was sure they were just cynically playing a game of advancement, and I despised them for it. What I've come to learn -- as disappointing as it is to me -- is that some people view this sort of thing as actual, legitimate opportunity, and are acting out of internal integrity. They don't see the hypocrisy of the power imbalance and how the comp…

Noam Chomsky with Andrew Marr

https://youtu.be/lLcpcytUnWU?t=173

"If you believed something different, you wouldn't be sitting where you are sitting"

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#210
post #156
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and if you are somewhat tech savvy OR "grew up" on the internet (say 40 and younger) you understand this. The problem is previous generations who don't really understand this. Perhaps one angle to tackle the problem is to educate the group(s) of people who continue to believe whatever they read on Twitter, Facebook, etc.

Since HN loves to veer wildly into rampant ageism, I'll bite... :) When you make your age distinctions, you might be talking about people who are non-technical. Early Internet techies predicted situations like this before they happened. (Pre-Web, we had all kinds of sci-fi predictions, awareness from historical analogues, etc. Post-Web, I talked with startup founders 20 years ago, who would also be 40yo+ by now, who…

Wouldn't that happen in perpetuity for every generation growing up in technology? We want to shield our children from the rest of the internet, and so children grow up with an internet framed for them. Then, as they grow, they are forced to deal with the concept of the internet not being framed anymore and may therefore have some time in their teenage to young adult years where they may be susceptible to shit like eg. outrage culture.
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