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Solar Is Cheapest Electricity in History, U.S. DOE Aims to Cut Costs 60% by 2030

cleantechnica.com

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Re: Solar Is Cheapest Electricity in History, U.S. DOE Aims to Cut Costs 60% by 2030

#201

Post by Manfredo_1 »

Hypx wrote: post #199
Manfredo_1 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how else we're suppose to interpret this statement: "No, hydrogen rapidly corrodes any metals that it comes into contact with. If they are interchangeable, expect drastically smaller service intervals." I'm not sure why you're having trouble comprehending it. Existing gas turbines are meant to run on either oil or natural gas, not hydrogen. In addition to corrosion, hydrogen burns hotter. You cited one specific…

So even a 90% hydrogen concentration burning, existing gas turbine with zero modifications still doesn't count. I see the goalposts move even further... Yeah, keep shoving your head up your own ass. Maybe you'll see daylight if you shove hard enough.

Why would it count in the context of climate change? It's still emitting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. And again, this is one specific model. Many gas turbines are only capable of much smaller concentrations: https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/news/magazine/2019/...

You're going from "we can just run existing gas turbines with hydrogen" to "this one specific gas turbine can use mostly hydrogen fuel but still needs 30% natural gas". Again 90% was peak not average hydrogen concentration.

Companies are looking at developing natural gas turbines that run on 100% hydrogen. But they're targeting 2030 or 2040. Are you going to tell GE and Seimens to shove their head up their ass, too?

Re: Solar Is Cheapest Electricity in History, U.S. DOE Aims to Cut Costs 60% by 2030

#202

Post by Manfredo_1 »

Manfredo_1 wrote: post #128
Hypx wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those gas turbines you're referring to can simply be modified natural gas gas turbines. The only limiting factor would be electrolysis, but that is already something people are planning to build a lot of. Nuclear's problem are fundamentally political in nature. If we really cared about green energy, nuclear power could easily be built out at scale.

No, hydrogen rapidly corrodes any metals that it comes into contact with. If they are interchangeable, expect drastically smaller service intervals.

Most companies are targeting hydrogen gas turbines to be produced in 2030 or 2040: https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/news/magazine/2019/...

They aren't "off the shelf" technology yet.

Re: Solar Is Cheapest Electricity in History, U.S. DOE Aims to Cut Costs 60% by 2030

#203

Post by Hypx »

Manfredo_1 wrote: post #201
Hypx wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So even a 90% hydrogen concentration burning, existing gas turbine with zero modifications still doesn't count. I see the goalposts move even further... Yeah, keep shoving your head up your own ass. Maybe you'll see daylight if you shove hard enough.

Why would it count in the context of climate change? It's still emitting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. And again, this is one specific model. Many gas turbines are only capable of much smaller concentrations: https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/news/magazine/2019/... You're going from "we can just run existing gas turbines with hydrogen" to "this one specific gas turbine can use mostly hydrogen fuel but st…

Even more moving of the goalposts... Now it's every single gas turbine out there needs to be upgradable to 100% hydrogen, and "peak" blends don't count.

Keep fucking that chicken.

Hell, your own source says:

> Similarly, the goal of 100 percent hydrogen combustion capability will be achieved step by step, test by test. “With hydrogen-fired gas turbines we can easily avoid the ‘valley of death’ where brilliant inventions die before they even scale to full potential,” says Larfeldt. “The same turbines can be used with different percentages of hydrogen in the fuel mix, with brown or green hydrogen. Existing gas turbines can be retrofitted to the latest standards. It’s an organic evolution.”

So your own source disagrees with you.

Re: Solar Is Cheapest Electricity in History, U.S. DOE Aims to Cut Costs 60% by 2030

#204

Post by Manfredo_1 »

Hypx wrote: post #203
Manfredo_1 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it count in the context of climate change? It's still emitting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. And again, this is one specific model. Many gas turbines are only capable of much smaller concentrations: https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/news/magazine/2019/... You're going from "we can just run existing gas turbines with hydrogen" to "this one specific gas turbine can use mostly hydrogen fuel but st…

Even more moving of the goalposts... Now it's every single gas turbine out there needs to be upgradable to 100% hydrogen, and "peak" blends don't count. Keep fucking that chicken. Hell, your own source says: > Similarly, the goal of 100 percent hydrogen combustion capability will be achieved step by step, test by test. “With hydrogen-fired gas turbines we can easily avoid the ‘valley of death’ where brilliant inventi…

The goalpost never moved. If you want to use hydrogen storage in a carbon neutral grid you need 100% hydrogen fuel. We're not there there yet. And we won't be there for the better part of a decade, or longer.

I guess I'll keep "fucking that chicken" along with GE and Siemens and the companies that actually build gas turbines.

> So your own source disagrees with you.

Did you miss the "in 2030" part?

Re: Solar Is Cheapest Electricity in History, U.S. DOE Aims to Cut Costs 60% by 2030

#205

Post by Hypx »

Manfredo_1 wrote: post #204
Hypx wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more moving of the goalposts... Now it's every single gas turbine out there needs to be upgradable to 100% hydrogen, and "peak" blends don't count. Keep fucking that chicken. Hell, your own source says: > Similarly, the goal of 100 percent hydrogen combustion capability will be achieved step by step, test by test. “With hydrogen-fired gas turbines we can easily avoid the ‘valley of death’ where brilliant inventi…

The goalpost never moved. If you want to use hydrogen storage in a carbon neutral grid you need 100% hydrogen fuel. We're not there there yet. And we won't be there for the better part of a decade, or longer. I guess I'll keep "fucking that chicken" along with GE and Siemens and the companies that actually build gas turbines. > So your own source disagrees with you. Did you miss the "in 2030" part?

Imagine electric cars were held to that standard. There would be no carbon neutral products of any kind.

Yes, keep fucking that chicken.

Re: Solar Is Cheapest Electricity in History, U.S. DOE Aims to Cut Costs 60% by 2030

#206

Post by Manfredo_1 »

Hypx wrote: post #205
Manfredo_1 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goalpost never moved. If you want to use hydrogen storage in a carbon neutral grid you need 100% hydrogen fuel. We're not there there yet. And we won't be there for the better part of a decade, or longer. I guess I'll keep "fucking that chicken" along with GE and Siemens and the companies that actually build gas turbines. > So your own source disagrees with you. Did you miss the "in 2030" part?

Imagine electric cars were held to that standard. There would be no carbon neutral products of any kind. Yes, keep fucking that chicken.

Why? Electric cars don't use a mixture of gas and batteries. Those cars do exist and we call them "hybrids". But those are not carbon neutral and we don't pretend they are.

Re: Solar Is Cheapest Electricity in History, U.S. DOE Aims to Cut Costs 60% by 2030

#207

Post by [deleted] »

Manfredo_1 wrote: post #206
Hypx wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine electric cars were held to that standard. There would be no carbon neutral products of any kind. Yes, keep fucking that chicken.

Why? Electric cars don't use a mixture of gas and batteries. Those cars do exist and we call them "hybrids". But those are not carbon neutral and we don't pretend they are.

[deleted]

Re: Solar Is Cheapest Electricity in History, U.S. DOE Aims to Cut Costs 60% by 2030

#208

Post by Hypx »

Manfredo_1 wrote: post #206
Hypx wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine electric cars were held to that standard. There would be no carbon neutral products of any kind. Yes, keep fucking that chicken.

Why? Electric cars don't use a mixture of gas and batteries. Those cars do exist and we call them "hybrids". But those are not carbon neutral and we don't pretend they are.

Grids are not 100% green. So by your definition they're not green either.

Re: Solar Is Cheapest Electricity in History, U.S. DOE Aims to Cut Costs 60% by 2030

#209

Post by [deleted] »

Hypx wrote: post #208
Manfredo_1 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Electric cars don't use a mixture of gas and batteries. Those cars do exist and we call them "hybrids". But those are not carbon neutral and we don't pretend they are.

Grids are not 100% green. So by your definition they're not green either.

[deleted]

Re: Solar Is Cheapest Electricity in History, U.S. DOE Aims to Cut Costs 60% by 2030

#210

Post by Manfredo_1 »

Hypx wrote: post #208
Manfredo_1 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Electric cars don't use a mixture of gas and batteries. Those cars do exist and we call them "hybrids". But those are not carbon neutral and we don't pretend they are.

Grids are not 100% green. So by your definition they're not green either.

An electric car is as green as the grid that powers it. But a hybrid will never be green even if the grid is 100% green because it still burns fossil fuels. Same with a turbine that consumes a mixture containing natural gas. If your generator uses fossil fuels it's emitting carbon dioxide.
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