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All my career rejections

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Re: All my career rejections

#201
post #132

I did something similar last year after getting rejected by FAANGs and few more other tech companies. - Google rejected 3 times. - Facebook 2 times. - Amazon(AWS) 1 times. - Adobe 1 Times. - Twitter, Github, stripe and others won't even consider me good enough for an interview. - Dozens others companies, who do FAANG style interviewing. I fear rejections, no matter how much I "try" to act normal. I was looking forwar…

You think that’s unbelievable? I’ve literally had a company recruiter tell me that I should probably spend a few hours on leetcode and hackerrank before the interview. That turned out to be predictive, because they rejected me mostly based on my inability to do well on those kinds of tests. I got a life people. Between taking care of my son, wife and work, where am I supposed to find ‘a few hours’ to spend on somethi…

A normal interview process probably costs 4-5 hours just to do the interviews. People often travel for them. You spend all day doing your job for years on end. A few hours of prep doesn’t sound like a big deal, especially since that prep translates to other companies as well.

Re: All my career rejections

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

idk, seems to me weird to go to an interview without preparing for days/weeks for it.

It doesn't seem weird to you that the skills you need to prepare for the interview have nothing to do with what the job actually entails?

Some delta between these two is true of all professions. How is the employer supposed to know what your skills are? Assessing this is a skill and there are only badly flawed tools available.

Re: All my career rejections

#203
IMHO - Give me a coding exercise that is needed for a day-to-day life in the target job, I would take it & no hard feelings if I fail. I do not believe Google/Facebook engineers are solving Binary tree problems everyday. Future is all about ML models generating code for you. So you may not even program in the future. What we need is creative intelligence or common sense that you apply for a given situation. Everything sounds very hypothetical though :)

Re: All my career rejections

#204
Very interesting. I think anyone with ambition has been rejected and its interesting to see how much OP is putting themselves out there. I chose to keep a list of all of the times I or my work has been recognized. I guess it comes down to what motivates you, but I'd rather not dwell on the times I've been rejected.

Re: All my career rejections

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem weird to you that the skills you need to prepare for the interview have nothing to do with what the job actually entails?

Some delta between these two is true of all professions. How is the employer supposed to know what your skills are? Assessing this is a skill and there are only badly flawed tools available.

Every time this kind of argument is made, I am tempted to remind people that all other professions do without this kind of thing (except finance I think). But then I remember only FAANG type companies require skills, bridges are built by randomly selected people.

Re: All my career rejections

#206

I've been accepted to most of the positions I've applied mainly because I avoided FAANG companies for fear of rejection. I was getting regular emails from their recruiters but just kept deleting them. One day I just decided to reply to the Google recruiter. I stupidly set up the interview ASAP at a time when I was out of the country with no computer or internet. So I went into the interview with zero prep. It was a d…

The FAANG interview is hard dude. I feel like I could maybe get in if I took a 6 month study break for it which is totally unrealistic. I tried a few times at the top 10 companies (except ones I consider immoral) and even got pretty far at some (onsites that went decently) but I'm pretty happy at medium sized later stage startups doing my 9-5. It's not like working for the highest market cap company in the US is goin…

Yeah it's a huge time sink. The Amazon interview was in Santa Monica even though recruiter informed me I was interviewing for a position in NYC. It's hard to find time to prep with kids at home also.

The real dagger for me is that our company lost two of our worst performers to FAANG companies. I was mentoring both and some of their code would qualify for r/codinghorror.

Re: All my career rejections

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very good comment. The fetishization of "failure" is a quite recent phenomenon that like many other communication workflows of the modern time has the implicit or explicit goals of making someone understood, commiserated, seen as naturally strong or "yes, I cried, but look how much stronger I am". A total waste of energy that to my eyes looks weak and entitled. Like when you read on, say, Twitter "my biolog…

Sorry for being nitpicky but a teacher talking like that could be very harsh and damaging depending on the child.

Quite the contrary. I understand the feeling and the downvotes. If I read my comment as written by someone else, I'd have a strong, negative reaction. What? They don't care about my failures? Are you saying that feeling down was for nothing since I cannot keep a list of them or talking about them on Twitter? It's like when I am reading and listening to Snowflake's CEO Frank Slootman: I don't like hearing what he's saying, and that's because I would like to be the one writing what he writes. But I am not him and I am not like him (for now, at least).

I believe that considering one's strengths and weaknesses rationally and logically, examining (briefly!) things that did not work out and rejections are all necessary to improve and being aligned. But keeping a list of and sharing failures like a cake at a wedding is weak. It is weak in form, weak in substance, weak in positive expected consequences.

Modern times, which are tremendously better overall than the olden times, have brought along for some reason—and especially in the US (and the Anglo world more in general)—this idea of being vulnerable and weak as being virtuous. So you have one day the failures, one day the impostor syndrome, the following day "whatever." But I don't find any virtue in that.

Since I am neither US nor Anglo, I remember, still with goosebumps, when a colleague of mine in one of the top tech companies in the Silicon Valley said during a group meeting: "Let me share some of my failures." And he went on with a list of "failed" projects and actions of absolutely zero interest for anybody. I remember the feeling of antipathy toward what I interpreted as either manipulation (please, I am weak, be kind) or tremendously low confidence masquerading as openness to criticism. What I expect from people getting a ton of money and status is: this is what did not work, that's why (if we know why), that's what we should be next time (if we know what and how). I am also looking forward to your comments and opinions. That is strong. Not sob stories.

You wrote: "A teacher talking like that could be very harsh and damaging depending on the child" -- It is the opposite, since I am not saying that "failures" are wrong, bad, they should put you down. On the contrary, I am saying that anytime we stretch ourselves (and lamentably, sometimes even the goal is easily reachable, because life is like a box of chocolate), we can miss, get rejected, lose. As it is inevitably part of the life of the achiever—and I hope (and work towards it) all my students will be achievers in some aspects of their lives—those "failures" (getting rejected by a romantic interest, a college, a company, etc.) should be rapidly and unequivocally forgotten. I mean, can you imagine keeping a list of all the men and women who rejected you? I am already feeling the testosterone dropping like a boulder in the ocean.

I was rejected by at least 50 high-level jobs for which I felt qualified. But the problem is that for those high-level jobs, other people felt equally qualified; maybe those candidates were better or had different competencies; maybe the company wanted someone better looking or of different ethnicity. Let's try to get some material for future endeavors and then move on. That's life for achievers.

Anecdote, yes. Read what Floyd Mayweather said in the criminally underrated "Winners", by Alastair Campbell (there is a reason why the book is not called either "Failures" or "Losers"): "The key quality for a winning mindset is believing in your ability to win. From a young professional in boxing, I believed that I would end up being a great fighter and throughout the years I have done everything necessary to get there. If you believe you can do it, then everything else falls into place.". I don't see the impostor syndrome and I don't see the list of rejections.

Re: All my career rejections

#208
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That time investment sounds like a tragic loss of open source development and random curious exploration by students. Maybe also quite a few lost innovative startups, which might've been spun out of students making things they want to make, rather than grinding just to prepare for interview rituals.

It can be a massive fun too. Ive never interviewed at FAANG, but solving some leetcode problems (mostly medium-hard though) was so cool for me and some of my friends. We were into olympic math at school, and I don't consider that a waste of time as well.

It's fun but for the most part boils down to software trivia, similar to Quiz Bowl. The key to succeeding with leetcode on the harder questions is memorization of things that frankly anyone can google up pretty quickly. It's a poor reflection of actual work.

Re: All my career rejections

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are genuinely curious. The point here is, people are confident that they can do the job, just can't pass the interview. The purpose of the interview is to select someone to do the job, not to pass the interview. "Preparing for the interview" is chasing the wrong KPI for both parties. Companies don't want someone who can pass the interview, they want someone who can do the job, they are not the same things…

However confident people are hat they can do the job the point of the interview is to convince the recruiters. That's the game and the recruiting company sets the rules.

Obviously, the whole complaint is that the rules they set are a poor indicator of future employee performance. Yeah, they can set a rule that whoever is the most physically attractive gets the job, but again, it's a very poor indicator of employee performance. Do you follow?

Re: All my career rejections

#210
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in the hope that the interview would reflect the actual work that needs to be done, which my education and previous work experience have prepared me very well for. Then I'm happy to prepare for the interview in the sense that I try to learn as much as possible about the company and the people I'm going to meet.

Copying this response from my older comment: The rampup at FAANG can be brutal and you'd be doing lots of learning even after getting in. The leetcode style interviews are designed to select people capable of studying and materialising broad problems in depth and scope under time constraints. They are also objective and can't really be faked nor you can talk your way in like in most banking/finance IT jobs. I was of…

The selection is a filter for people who are willing to pour massive amounts of free time into preparing for a small subset of companies. It's a great filter if you want someone who obsessively wants to work for you and is willing to sacrifice a significant amount of their personal time for it, but not so great a filter of their competence beyond a basic level.

Leetcode is a memorization/trivia exercise, not a reflection of someone's deep understanding of proper coding practices, software architecture, and ability optimize in real world cases (since in the real world you can use google and use whatever libraries you want).

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