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Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

swissinfo.ch

201–210 of 423 posts

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#201
post #70
post #8

Quite a few people who voted against this did so purely because they didn’t want private companies controlling the system. If the proposal had been for the government to issue and control the identities, it may well have passed.

In Sweden we have a company running the ID system and that works fine. The company is coowned by all the large banks afaik. I was really surprised at how far behind Switzerland is compared to Scandinavia when it comes to digitalisation. Being able to handle my life hassle free online instead of going to physical places (like post office, banks, gov office) is liberating. I also get all my bills digitally and all my r…

Since it's closed-source, privately owned and not based on any open standards, it doesn't work on Linux or any mobile device that isn't using Google Play Services or iOS.

It's convenient, but it's an absolute travesty that we've left such an essential part of digital infrastructure to big banks.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#202
post #81

"... almost no government has the IT capacity and resources to single-handedly develop an eID quickly and to the appropriate standards." Bullshit. We're talking identity management here. Any government that can't handle that internally doesn't deserve to exist. What that's really about is feathering the nests of tech industry donors (and/or the non-tech middlemen or middlewomen who seem to grow like weeds around the…

"Any government that can't handle that internally doesn't deserve to exist."

So, like the US?

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#203
post #8

Quite a few people who voted against this did so purely because they didn’t want private companies controlling the system. If the proposal had been for the government to issue and control the identities, it may well have passed.

Yes, and that's a good thing. Balkanizing ID info between a gazillion government databases as we do in the US just creates inefficiency, and raises the thirst for more intensive surveillance to counter the inefficiency with which the data is used. (Consider the talk after 9/11 on the FBI and CIA not sharing info, and then we get the Patriot Act.)

[deleted]

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#204
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they keep getting awarded contracts despite their continued poor delivery. I really don't understand how their terrible track record never seems to impact their ability to win more business. I can only assume corruption, but I have no evidence of this.

Prior delivery is not generally a major consideration in a govt RFP award. This is in part because no score is ever released related to prior delivery (ie, no central assessment record), and attempts to include it get tied up in process issues (ie, rights to respond, litigation) or claims it is subjective. It also overlaps with govt agency disfunction around scope and requirements and no govt manager wants a failed p…

RFPs frequently reference past activity. That’s just not accurate.

The reality is that you only hear about failed projects. When was the last time that you heard about taxes not being collected or welfare payments not being paid or SNAP cards not being refilled?

It’s all background activity, and those awful contractor companies are often responsible for material aspects of delivery.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#205
post #79

Switzerland has an awesome electoral system [1]. Instead of being ruled by a president or a prime minister who can be polarising, divisive, or selective, Switzerland has an Executive Council. The 7 member Executive Council is composed of the top 7 candidates from each election. The chairperson of the executive council rotates each year, so that the top 4 vote winners each get a turn at being chairperson. This means t…

Well, that same system also voted on banning Muslim face coverings ("Experts estimate that at most a few dozen Muslim women wear full-face coverings in the country of 8.5 million people."), while a pandemic is going on and face coverings for protection are recommended. https://apnews.com/article/health-legislation-coronavirus-pa...

What's wrong with banning a backwards custom that limits women's rights?

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#206
post #184
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very much against genital mutilation as is practiced in some muslim countries and support bans against such practices in the west. Does that make me a xenophobe?

No, it doesn't. One can oppose (religiously motivated or not) genital mutilation on purely humanistic grounds, completely divorced from any religious concerns. Banning building minarets has no such justification; just blatant xenophobia.

I guess where you come from all building codes are blatant xenophobia, because there can't possible any other reason as fear from stranger to disallow some buildings.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at their impact on world peace over the centuries rather than their opinions on architecture.

You didn't answer my question, and those aren't opinion polls, the difference between them being whether they are binding. You don't think those constitutional referendums which ban those historically Muslim traditions could be interpreted as xenophobic? You don't seem intent on actually answering my question or even directly addressing it, so I assume you are just gaslighting in bad faith. Good luck.

Swiss here that happen to have voted in both polls. I can give you an insight on my view of the topic that may be representative of a part of the population (probably not the majority but at least a significant fraction).

Both initiatives are targeted to a specific extremely tiny population of citizens (most of the trouble is with « converted » Swiss that embrace Islamist views, most of Muslim of foreign origin are pretty well integrated and many even supported the recent burka ban because they know very well what that means) that tries to exploit the democratic system to promote their totalitarian ideology. You have to nip that in the bud. There is for sure some collateral damage as not all people that would like to build a minaret are necessarily islamists but there are prices to pay so that everybody can live peacefully together. The sacrifices will be compensated when the times come.

FYI, back when that was source of troubles Jesuits were banned in the constitution (ban lifted in the 70ties) and some cantons were forbidding to build bell towers for Catholic churches till last century, etc. When the tensions tapered out all the bans were lifted. I’m pretty sure in 50 years if we get rid of Islamism the minaret ban can be lifted with no troubles.

As a side note, by the way it is constructed, essentially everybody in Switzerland is part of some minority and is both paying a bit and getting back a lot in terms of freedom and respect. Everybody depends on the goodwill of the majority so it is in general wary of stomping on other minorities but react strongly when somebody want to destroy the system or doesn’t respect it (most of the sparse cases of real xenophobic behavior, which btw I don’t condone, you may encounter in Switzerland often boils down normal human narrow minds and that).

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#208
post #13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Facial coverings are contrary to our value system,” Wobmann told Swiss public television, SRF. He said there were now clear rules in place so that “people know that in our country, you show your face in public”. I wonder if this reasoning will be re-examined due to widespread good faith face mask use during the pandemic.

Wearing a mask for health reasons is still allowed. That being said, laws prohibiting what you may wear, targeted specifically against a religion, are concerning.

Concerning to whom? The people who want to impose clothing upon others or the people who have clothing imposed upon them? Or perhaps the people who stand on the sidelines and do nothing when culture is holding a veto over rank, overt misogyny.

(And before anyone cries discrimination, this particular subject is entirely geographic-cultural. Somehow we’ve been convinced that culture must have a veto over sexism. I'm unconvinced that we should consider this as settled debate.)

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#209
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My best solution right now is a UPS box, which gives you a proper street address. Most places that ask for utility bills will accept a phone bill or insurance bill or some such which you can have arranged to be sent to that address. I'd be interested to know if there are similar services that are cheaper and ideally less well-known than UPS but equally reliable. Delivery to my real address with the ability to trust t…

> My best solution right now is a UPS box, which gives you a proper street address. USPS maintains a very immaculately curated list of CMRAs (Commercial Mail Receiving Agents). It's not hard because they need to register with USPS in order to receive mail on behalf of customers who pay them for mail-receiving service. USPS is allowed to deny them mail delivery if they refuse to register, and does. Every place that wa…

Would there be any reason not just to buy undeveloped land instead? (Not sure when a property parcel gets assigned an address.)

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#210

[flagged]

Please don't post generic comments and/or ideological flamebait to HN. It leads to generic threads and/or ideological flamewars, which we're trying to avoid because they're tedious and turn nasty.

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