Live data from Hacker News

Open source projects should run office hours

simonwillison.net

201–210 of 279 posts

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#201
post #200
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference in usage is not localized English: it's cultural student/academic vs. employed. To a student with no professional experience, "office hours" are posted times when a professor is available to further mentor and guide a student. "office hours" are designated times outside of the scheduled class times and professors are generally required to provide them so others can benefit. To a professional and others…

I think the authors explanation with the german word "Sprechstunde" is really great. There is a clear distinction between "Arbeitszeit" which is the working time and the "Sprechstunde" which is the time someone is available to talk to.

I added that paragraph about fifteen minutes ago based on feedback in the comments here.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#202

I have deep aversion to "Open source projects should run office hours" title. Maybe "Office hours may be a good idea for open source projects"? This would not suggest obligation. In general, fact that someone created or maintains or supports open source projects should not be considered to create any obligations beyond lack of malice and abuse. I am not obligated to support any bugs, create any features and it is per…

> In general, fact that someone created or maintains or supports open source projects should not be considered to create any obligations beyond lack of malice and abuse.

I think we need to separate open source products and open source projects. A product being the main product of a for-profit company or a marketing tool by a for-profit company and a project being something that someone released just to be nice, to show off, etc.

I literally tried to use a dev tooling SaaS service their offical integration broke my build in 3 different ways. What makes this all the worse is that the integration shouldn't even be enabled in test mode. It was configured not to, but still it broke my build in 3 different ways. I literally decided to use a competitor straight away. But wanted to at least let them know of the issues. The tickets to their offical integration were responded to by volunteers. After a few days I noticed no employees of this company that raised 65 Million had shown up to look into build breaking bugs in their dev tooling product. I tweeted that they were relying on volunteers to do support. The CTO said that was absolutely not true then said with open source people will volunteer and that is a benefit. So in the one tweet is contradicted himself, weirdly this tweet was well liked. They went on to use the fact I am free to use a self hosted OSS version of the product, support is a bit much to ask. My issue wasn't that they had volunteers helping out, it was that it was literally only volunteers. The volunteers rightly pointed out they're volunteers and said the company provides paid support. Then went on to say that the company won't be able to help since they write and maintain the product and they're the domain experts for this area. Again, relying... Both the issues ended up being closed because "We don't think it's our code and we can't reproduct". Considering these are build breaking bugs that you will encounter while onboarding to the paid product that response is not acceptable. It is acceptable in this is free and unoffical.

Open Source is not an excuse to be unprofessional. Saying "Well you don't have to use our paid product you can use OSS" when someone points out the support provided for the paid product is unprofessional and is not a valid excuse for providing crappy support. Saying this is GitHub and not a valid place to expect a company to support their techincal products is not professional. As an industry, we need to step away from the unprofessionalism that open source has brought to the table. People literally have talks saying do open source it's good for your professional career and in the day tweet complaining and asking if an open source project they use to boost their professional career is dead.

Honestly, I think free open source for companies should be a thing of the past and we should move towards paid license with paid support. The number of companies that will be completely screwed if one over worked guy in Milan decides to stop working on a hobby project is unacceptable.

We should be creating obligiations on things that are clearly for professional gain and putting a price tag on those obligations.

/rant

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#203

This particular developer is fairly open about "the challenges of taking an open source project and turning it into a full-time job, earning a salary good enough to avoid the siren call of working for a FAANG company" and "this as an opportunity for earning money against an open source project, and I think it could complement office hours nicely: 25 minutes on a Friday free on a first-come, first-served basis could t…

That section was mostly intended to pre-empt the expected complaints from people who would say "so you expect open source maintainers to give away even MORE of their time for free?"

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#204

Never heard of "office hours" used this way. Must be a US thing. Its a good idea. Schedule a session with an expert or someone who is working on the thing you're interested in / supporting. I'd definitely link it to money so that the expert doesn't get overwhelmed / (ab)used by time wasters.

“Office hours” is something you hear in college. It’s a stated time of the week where the professor will be in their office and students can stop by to discuss course material, assignments, and ask questions in a one-on-one situation.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#206

I have deep aversion to "Open source projects should run office hours" title. Maybe "Office hours may be a good idea for open source projects"? This would not suggest obligation. In general, fact that someone created or maintains or supports open source projects should not be considered to create any obligations beyond lack of malice and abuse. I am not obligated to support any bugs, create any features and it is per…

The submission title appears to be editorialized. Original title is "Open source projects: consider running office hours"

And the article talks about the purpose being for gathering feedback (think UX sessions), not for gratuitous support. Meaning that goal is for the project maintainer to draw benefits from others donating their time.

Personally I think this a really clever idea

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#207
post #191

I have deep aversion to "Open source projects should run office hours" title. Maybe "Office hours may be a good idea for open source projects"? This would not suggest obligation. In general, fact that someone created or maintains or supports open source projects should not be considered to create any obligations beyond lack of malice and abuse. I am not obligated to support any bugs, create any features and it is per…

What happened to the HN rule of "interpret everything with the most positive interpretation possible", when this is the top voted comment ? It seems pretty obvious that the author doesn't intend to coerce anyone into doing anything.

The rules are rarely followed. So many times I get bunches of silent downvotes just because...

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#208
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on license, aren't you obligated to provide a repo if you're using the code (ie GPL)? Or do I misunderstand it?

Under GPL-like licenses you are obligated to provide source code if you provide a binary. If you don’t distribute anything, e.g. you only use something privately, then there are effectively no obligations. Of course, if you don’t provide source code for your project (whether legitimately or not), then by definition your project is not open source in the first place. Note that the GPL specifically does not require pub…

> Under GPL-like licenses you are obligated to provide source code if you provide a binary

No, this requirement applies only if you are using somebody's else GPL code, and it's meant to allow other developers and users to benefit from the work done.

It does not apply to the original author because the author owns the copyright of that code.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#209
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened to the HN rule of "interpret everything with the most positive interpretation possible", when this is the top voted comment ? It seems pretty obvious that the author doesn't intend to coerce anyone into doing anything.

The rules are rarely followed. So many times I get bunches of silent downvotes just because...

Unfortunately that rule only applies to comments, not voting.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#210
post #191

I have deep aversion to "Open source projects should run office hours" title. Maybe "Office hours may be a good idea for open source projects"? This would not suggest obligation. In general, fact that someone created or maintains or supports open source projects should not be considered to create any obligations beyond lack of malice and abuse. I am not obligated to support any bugs, create any features and it is per…

What happened to the HN rule of "interpret everything with the most positive interpretation possible", when this is the top voted comment ? It seems pretty obvious that the author doesn't intend to coerce anyone into doing anything.

Such office hours could have a price. Given how much consultants charge it wouldn't be unreasonable to charge $500/hour (being a maintainer comes with deep knowledge).
Post reply on HN