Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Griddy Is Shutting Down

griddy.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 267 posts

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#201

Post by sokoloff »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #176
sephamorr wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'People' can simply choose a different electricity retailer if they want a constant rate and to not worry about this. If they were adequately informed about risks, why shouldn't we be allowed to choose our path? Industrial customers usually buy on the wholesale market, it doesn't seem a stretch that consumers could benefit from that too.

> If they were adequately informed about risks, why shouldn't we be allowed to choose our path? That's a big if. In reality, they won't be adequately informed - they'll be at best adequately disinformed by the marketing departments of the power companies and third parties popping up around variable-pricing schemes. And to the extent exposing the customers to price variability is beneficial for the suppliers, the mark…

If I do something stupid, why should I be bailed out? That takes away a key feedback mechanism.

Heads you win; tails someone else loses; how much would you like to wager?

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#202

Post by TeMPOraL »

sokoloff wrote: post #201
TeMPOraL wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they were adequately informed about risks, why shouldn't we be allowed to choose our path? That's a big if. In reality, they won't be adequately informed - they'll be at best adequately disinformed by the marketing departments of the power companies and third parties popping up around variable-pricing schemes. And to the extent exposing the customers to price variability is beneficial for the suppliers, the mark…

If I do something stupid, why should I be bailed out? That takes away a key feedback mechanism. Heads you win; tails someone else loses; how much would you like to wager?

Because if you lose enough, you start dragging your family or community down. If enough people lose enough, they turn into a humanitarian crisis. People are social creatures, and want to help each other, and set up systems that do so - which then get unintentionally exploited by risk takers.

So a bunch of people do something obviously stupid - like getting scammed by a tech support call, or get infinite debt on a payday loan, or put a hand in a moving machinery and lose it. Now they're there, scammed, without money, and/or a hand. What are you going to do? Deny them healthcare and basic support? No, we help them anyway, and instead chase scammers, put limits on payday loans, and enforce safety requirements on equipment - we take away the choice of being stupid, because that's more reasonable than being indifferent to the suffering of victims of their own stupidity, for the sake of enforcing a corrective feedback loop.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#203

Post by fastball »

Lammy wrote: post #43
fastball wrote: post #3

Not a fan of this. People buying electricity at wholesale prices is on them.

> People buying electricity at wholesale prices is on them. This feels too much like victim blaming for me to agree with. In general, people are lead to believe "wholesale" just means something like "cheaper in bulk" à la Costco. I am sympathetic to anyone who was ignorant of the fact that it meant their personal rates could be much much higher too.

You're not a victim if:

1. You're directly in this position due to choices you made.

2. The "perpetrator" is mother nature.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#204

Post by toomuchtodo »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #8

People need to realize that managing risk costs money. As an individual consumer, you are many times better have paying a little extra for something in exchange for reducing your exposure to risk. Do things that de-risk your life. Make sure your health coverage is good, and not just the cheapest insurance plan. Make sure you have life insurance.

Humans are terrible at risk management.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#205

Post by Robotbeat »

sokoloff wrote: post #199
salawat wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to keep in mind what caused that. In Austin's cade, Austin Energy built out way too much off of essential circuits. Office buildings stayed lit because they trunked off a circuit feeding medical centers, emergency services, that type of thing. So the only place Austin Energy could go for load shedding was their residential customer base. Even then; they didn't execute true "rolling" blackouts, because that i…

If they were (and knew they were) being charged $9/kWh for days on end, the occupants of those buildings would have shed the wasteful lighting loads for you.

Precisely.

Residential areas should maybe be the ONLY places where a fixed rate would be allowed. Everywhere else (commercial, industrial, etc) should have to have real-time pricing. That would reduce the swings in price since demand would be much more elastic.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#206

Post by fastball »

salawat wrote: post #190
austhrow743 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost fully self driving cars are physically dangerous to others. Whether or not you think people should be allowed to bankrupt themselves speculating on wholesale energy prices; it’s an entirely different situation.

Not really. You're just gambling/risk taking in a different way. It's like a waterbed. Push down the risk in one place, pops up in another.

How am I impacted if some random person can't pay their energy bills because they used a lot of power when the prices were high?

Meanwhile getting run over by a semi-autonomous vehicle is a fairly direct consequence of such things.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#207

Post by Robotbeat »

salawat wrote: post #168
asdf333 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are stories of many empty office buildings fully powered with the lights on throughout the whole thing. Its possible if they were on a more price sensitive system those commercial property owners would have opted to shut off more of the power.

You need to keep in mind what caused that. In Austin's cade, Austin Energy built out way too much off of essential circuits. Office buildings stayed lit because they trunked off a circuit feeding medical centers, emergency services, that type of thing. So the only place Austin Energy could go for load shedding was their residential customer base. Even then; they didn't execute true "rolling" blackouts, because that i…

Well, you’re making my point for me! With better control and response over energy usage, the power companies would be able to cut power to non-essentials, and businesses would be both incentivized and empowered to do it themselves voluntarily.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#208

Post by fastball »

freeone3000 wrote: post #49
bpodgursky wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way other electric companies would be able to eat the difference between retail and wholesale rates would be to overcharge for years, hoard cash, and then pay out that buffer during this crisis. Presumably, this is what they did. Doesn't actually seem better for consumers?

Except during events like this, that people are not and cannot be prepared for. Griddy going out of business is nothing -- if someone else wants to take up the business model, they can tomorrow. Individual people being charged thousands for debts difficult to discharge is the real harm.

Pro-tip: if the rates are really high, stop using so much power.

What happened to personal responsibility?

Post reply on HN