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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#201

Post by zepto »

chungus_khan wrote: post #119
darknessmonk wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Hurts overall experience. Not only the App's won't be curated the same as the other ones, but now I would have to maybe reach to some webside to download a .ipa file or to download a secondary App store to get a apps that otherwise would be available on App Store.

Then keep using the curated store? It only hurts if Apple's store can't compete with alternative ones. There's no such problem on Android because developers and users are fine with the Play Store. Epic even tried doing a sideloaded Fortnite for Android and people didn't download it, so they came back.

This keeps getting repeated but is false.

New stores will pay for exclusives rights to popular apps just as video streaming platforms do for video.

Users will have no choice but to use a jumble of different stores.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#202

Post by kergonath »

justapassenger wrote: post #127
aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

Apple isn’t users friend, or defender of the people. It’s biggest company in the word, that tries to make most amount of money by monopolizing markets. And privacy sells nowadays, so they exploit that to grow even more. Of course users get something in return, but that’s not the reason why do that. It’s one of the greatest PR campaigns of modern world, to have people believe that biggest company in the world cares ab…

Nothing is either purely good or purely evil, can we go beyond school yard arguments?

The fact is as a consumer my interests (essentially privacy and safety) are better aligned with Apple’s than with Google, Facebook, or Epic. Their transactions with me is how they get their money, and they have strong incentives to keep that relationship. This is not the case with Google or Facebook, because their bottom line does not depend on me being happy with them in any way. Similarly, Epic has no incentive to be nice to me because I’m not the one funding them.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#203

Post by dralley »

ericmay wrote: post #55
aboringusername wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic demands Apple do thing = bad for Apple (good for Epic) no way Apple demand Facebook do thing = Good for Apple (bad for FB) yes way So Apple is allowed to get its own way, 100% of the time, no questions asked, what they want is what they get end of (by virtue of holding all the cards and owning the platform they dictate the rules on) How about no? You can play by your rules in your sandbox, but Epic has a right t…

> Epic demands Apple do thing = bad for Apple (good for Epic) no way Epic demands Apple do a thing = bad for Apple, bad for customers (good for Epic) > Apple demand Facebook do thing = Good for Apple (bad for FB) yes way Apple demands Facebook do a thing = Good for Apple, good for customers (bad for Facebook) As a customer in these equations, I'm siding with Apple. > That's the very definition of "competition" someth…

How is Epic fighting to reduce Apple's cut of app store proceeds (30%!) bad for customers? At worst it's customer-neutral, at best it could reduce prices.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#204

Post by zepto »

pentae wrote: post #77
darknessmonk wrote: post #37

> Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other stores from competing. The walled garden is a selling point, a feature - I don't care about sideloading at all. You want to sideload? Grab and Android.

How about don't tell me what device I can or can't use? I want to sideload on my iPhone.

Nobody is telling you what device you can use.

Why would you buy a device that doesn’t do what you want?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#205

Post by drawkbox »

csunbird wrote: post #167
adamdusty wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they? All in app purchases have to be made through Apple's payment system. If you can buy amazon prime through the app then Apple should be taking a 30% cut. They might already do that, I have no idea, but it seems unlikely Amazon would agree to it.

Delivery of physical goods and services are allowed to have other means of payment, I think.

Exactly, there are "Reader" apps that Apple has at 15%, these are video platforms, books and more which Amazon falls under. Amazon Prime Video, Netflix, Dropbox, Audible, Spotify and others also fall under this category.

All of this is described clearly in their information. [1]

"3.1.3(a) “Reader” Apps: Apps may allow a user to access previously purchased content or content subscriptions (specifically: magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, and video). Reader apps may offer account creation for free tiers, and account management functionality for existing customers." [2]

Additionally, Apple also allow small business at 15%.

"Keep 70% of your sales proceeds (85% if you’re enrolled in the App Store Small Business Program) and 85% for qualifying subscriptions." [3]

[1] https://www.apple.com/app-store/

[2] https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

[3] https://developer.apple.com/app-store/features/

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#206

Post by dijit »

leothecool wrote: post #170
nickysielicki wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about the outcome, it’s about reasoning from first principles and going where ever that leads you, regardless of how much you dislike the outcome. Nobody has to buy an iPhone, iPad, or MacBook. Apple has the right to create the software ecosystem they want to create. Their success in mobile computing is arguably a direct result of their closed ecosystem.

Its not exactly a good thing that they leveraged itunes library vendor lock-in to drive market share early on. The anti-consumer aspects of their closed ecosystem directly resulted in their success. There's no doubt about it.

Sorry, I don't buy this at all.

iTunes library (at least for Books and Music) is DRM-free and has been from an early stage (though _did_ launch with DRM).

I've had great success in migrating my purchased items back and forth from linux with absolutely no issue. However now they're using streaming and I'm unable to easily "own" any music anymore... or at the very least it takes you off of the easy path.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#207

Post by throw_away892 »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #151
justapassenger wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple isn’t users friend, or defender of the people. It’s biggest company in the word, that tries to make most amount of money by monopolizing markets. And privacy sells nowadays, so they exploit that to grow even more. Of course users get something in return, but that’s not the reason why do that. It’s one of the greatest PR campaigns of modern world, to have people believe that biggest company in the world cares ab…

This is a pointless statement, does Epic have consumers back? LOL hardly. This lawsuit is about Epic cashing in on Apple's work. No one believes Apple the corp is the defender of the people. Apple is great on privacy compared to all the other options, not because they are good people (they may not be or they may be who knows?) but because it's in their best interest to be. This is about two corp's fighting over their…

How you don't see Epic's move as a win for Apple users is ironic given how pro-consumer you seem to perceive Apple to be.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#208

Post by abakker »

mhh__ wrote: post #36
jonwinstanley wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other stores from competing What about platforms like Playstation or the computers built into Teslas etc, should we allow sideloading on those? How do you define a platform?

Pragmatically, I don't care, because no one who owns a Tesla is using it as their sole access to a computer (similarly with playstation). Many people now only use an iPad or iPhone these days. In an ideal world I would force them (I probably wouldn't for a Tesla because diy software on a car...) to have some basic ability to load programs.

Ah, the software Robin Hood, here to help the little guy understand how to best use their own computer... This is such a HN comment it hurts. Many people use iPhone and iPads as their primary devices because everything is easy and it all works. side loading apps is just not a concern that people outside of HN even have.

This lawsuit is about Epic trying to not pay the same fees as everyone else not some giant ethical debate over the rights that people should have on their devices. Epic wants rights for themselves, they don't want them for their customers.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#209

Post by onion2k »

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

I hate the fact I have to use Apple TV to watch Servant, Disney+ to watch The Mandalorian, Netflix to watch Stranger Things, and Amazon Prime Video to watch The Boys, and HBO to watch Game of Thrones, and so on. I'd much rather all of those other companies gave Apple a 30% cut of their revenue.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#210

Post by _jal »

kevingadd wrote: post #152
zepto wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those had an actual monopoly - literally no alternative service provider.

If I want to use FaceTime to talk to my mother, the only way I can do that is by purchasing an iPhone. What's the difference? Do I have to buy my mom a new Android phone and repurchase all her apps and digital content to exercise my Consumer Freedom?

My mother uses a Cryptophone[1]. The only way I can talk to her is to buy her a replacement.

What's the difference?

[1] https://www.cryptophone.de . And no, of course not.

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