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Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

theguardian.com

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Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#201

Post by gambiting »

turtlebits wrote: post #178

Mass adoption won't happen until charging infrastructure improves dramatically. As a non-Tesla owner, I have had the worst experiences at fast charging stations - I'd say 70% of the time at Electrify America stations (they have the most fast charging coverage), I run into a charger that doesn't work and waste time moving my car and retrying another bay. (I've even experienced a station with 5 bays where none of them…

I've driven through Germany last summer, tried 3 different charging stations, none of them worked. Or rather, they did, but I couldn't set up the app for them, one because it didn't have an English option, one because it wouldn't accept my non-German card and another because it was giving me an extremely helpful "unspecified" error. But even here in UK it's a mess. There is a charging station near my home that seems to be out of order 90% the time. There is another one where I can't set up an account and their customer support is non existent. Funnily enough the best experiences I ever had with charging stations in the UK were always at Shell charging stations - plug in, tap your payment card on the side, done. No apps, no stupid fobs or anything, it's easier than paying for petrol. I really do think that legislation should come in to force all providers to accept card payment at the charger, even if the cost is higher(offer discount to account holders, but at least let me pay even without an account)

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#202

Post by abeppu »

I'm curious how many EV purchasers live in single family homes, or other places where they can provide their own ability to charge at home. I wonder if a new scale of adoption will require a change where most (or a lot) of street parking is by cheap charging. https://youtu.be/RMxB7zA-e4Y?t=1245

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#204

Post by albertgoeswoof »

908B64B197 wrote: post #65
mywittyname wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long haul trips were never the biggest concern for EV adoption, that's something that can largely be worked around through planning. The biggest concern has always been charging infrastructure. EVs are great for people with garages, but not so much for the people in cities with no dedicated parking spot. Banning ICEs is probably the best mechanism to get society to solve this problem. Otherwise, most city-dwellers wi…

> EVs are great for people with garages, but not so much for the people in cities with no dedicated parking spot. That's one of the reasons I'm hopeful for self-driving taxis. Unless cities magically start allowing garages to be built.

Self driving taxis are like flying cars- they’re technically possible and have been for some time, but you don’t see them on roads, because they’re just not quite right

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#205

Post by jtaillon »

cptskippy wrote: post #195
tzs wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put some numbers on this, you can measure charge rates/fueling rates as number of miles worth of charge/fuel provided per hour of charging/fueling. A Tesla V3 Supercharger can charge at a rate of about 1000 mph or 1600 kph. A 240 volt 48 amp home charger home charger can charge a Model 3 at a rate of 44 mph or 71 kph. A US gas pump can pump a maximum of 10 gallons per minute. If you refill at a station with such a…

The flaw in your reasoning, and most people arguing against BEVs is they envision the demand for charging stations is going to be in any way similar to the demand for gas stations. A regular 120v charger can put 60 miles on an EV overnight which is more than enough for the average commute. I did this for 2 years with a 50 mile round-trip commute. I started each day with 100% charge on my Nissan Leaf, arrived home eac…

What do electron fumes smell like? :)

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#206

Post by r00fus »

davmar wrote: post #198

a year ago I bought a used 2016 nissan leaf for driving around town for 11k. it's the best car i've ever owned. the design is ugly, the generic silver is hideous, but i'm so emotionally attached to it. i don't drive my really nice (and newer) VW GTI anymore. if you're thinking of getting an EV, you don't have to buy a tesla. the used leafs are just brilliant.

There is a reason that used Leafs are cheaper - the range is reduced due to poor design around thermal management for the battery (no active cooling) so the battery life degrades quickly.

Newer (2018+) Leafs fixed this, but if you plan on buying used - make sure the range is confirmed.

All that said, I have a cheap EV (2017 Focus) and it's a blast to drive - not a Tesla but still a sleeper.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#207

Post by gambiting »

buran77 wrote: post #179
Gwypaas wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU legislation regarding CO2 emissions has teeth, and no respite has been given. This is the reason so many PHEVs are being introduced lately, they are about the only way to comply except pure BEVs. Sure, UK is not EU anymore but the legislation is felt worldwide. Before 2020: https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_... From 2020 onwards: https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/…

> they are about the only way to comply except pure BEVs On paper. In reality [0][1] unless you drive all electric all or most of the time the actual, real life CO2 emissions are far worse. Because now you have an ICE engine that hauls around an extra battery and electric motor, occasionally inefficiently charging the battery by burning gasoline. Many (most?) PHEVs owners don't have charging at home (reason to buy hy…

I bought a PHEV a year ago and the fuel savings are enormous. I've been filling it up once every 3 months so far, most of my journeys are done in fully electric mode, and when they are not I'm averaging 100-150mpg. Charging at home is pretty easy, but I do have my own driveway which I realize a lot of people don't.

But yes, UK company tax structure around them is absolutely broken. You can get one, get a massive tax discount, and then simply never charge it, resulting in higher emissions than in a normal car, and yet keep the low emissions discount. It's stupid. I think you should have to prove that you're actually using the EV capabilities, otherwise it's just straight up fraud.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#208

Post by r00fus »

cabaalis wrote: post #203

Can someone who knows more about the subject that I do comment on the statement "electric powered vehicles are coal powered vehicles?" I'm seeing that in conservative circles.

quick google search brought up this: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/a-cheat-sheet-to-debunking-myth...

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#209

Post by headmelted »

davmar wrote: post #198

a year ago I bought a used 2016 nissan leaf for driving around town for 11k. it's the best car i've ever owned. the design is ugly, the generic silver is hideous, but i'm so emotionally attached to it. i don't drive my really nice (and newer) VW GTI anymore. if you're thinking of getting an EV, you don't have to buy a tesla. the used leafs are just brilliant.

Same here!

I love my frog-looking golf cart of a car. It’s also (between tax incentives and subsidised electricity) been essentially free to own and run - and is worth about the same now as what I paid for it years ago.

People need to check out what they’re missing.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#210

Post by cptskippy »

marvin wrote: post #121
ajross wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd want to see numbers for that argument, because I don't think I'm willing to buy it on assertion. A single, routine, boring 100A building drop is enough to charge 4-5 cars (i.e. "one station worth"), and those wires and infrastructure are already there, and have been for decades.

The biggest problem is peak power. The naïve approach is to try to pull 500kW from the grid during the 20 minutes that you have five cars charging, then zero once they leave. This will at best be very expensive, but most likely impossible as the local grid won't support it. So a battery buffer needs to be built into the charging station in order to operate them cheaply, with a smoother load profile that the power com…

That will be less of a problem than you think. Power demand is already inconsistent throughout the day. Depending on the time of year it will peak around noon or in the evening but overnight the demand is low.

When people start charging overnight at home the overnight loads will increase. This will intern allow power companies to increase capacity.

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