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China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

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Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#201

Post by hungryhobo »

mhh__ wrote: post #170
hungryhobo wrote: post #156

Honestly can we not post stuff from radio free Asia on hacker News, this isn't Reddit

When appraising something from a propaganda-y source, the rule of thumb I use is to treat it like selling sausages - if they're your sausages, you don't go into detail, but if they're your competitors sausages and you know they're full of sawdust then you don't need to make anything up. Also "this isn't Reddit" is just delusions of grandeur, HN commenters are self-selected around technology for the most part not poli…

Well depends on what your motives are when you are reading china related news. Do you want an accurate depiction of that's actually going on or do you want to read stuff that reaffirms your bias. The actual article linked has provided zero evidence that CCP is trying to nationalize Alibaba. So to me that's a low quality article that I think should not appear on hn

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#202

Post by rayiner »

bmitc wrote: post #57
KorematsuFred wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is working well in my opinion. I would rather live in a world where billionaires are happy to dissolve a corrupt and disgusting politician than other way around.

You’re assuming one came before the other. It is the corporations that corrupted the politicians, or at least catalyzed the process.

Lol no. Countries with the least corporations have the most corrupt politicians.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#203

Post by bosswipe »

brabel wrote: post #171
marcinzm wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Who is praising the CCP's economic rise? A majority of Americans until relatively recently? China was seen favorably by most Americans until the last decade. An economic world power that we should strengthen relations with if polls are to be believed. For example: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/10/06/unfavorable-vi...

We need to get things straight: everyone should praise the rise of Chinese people's living standards, which has been astonishing in the last 45 years or so, and has taken 850 million people out of poverty[0]! This is not something a reasonable person can argue against! The increase in human wellbeing in the whole planet has been almost entirely due to the Chinese in the last 50 years. That doest' mean we should prais…

> 850 million people out of poverty. This is not something a reasonable person can argue against!

I'd argue against it on the grounds that the planet doesn't have enough resources for everyone to live a middle class lifestyle.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#204

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

emteycz wrote: post #140
marcinzm wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Who is praising the CCP's economic rise? A majority of Americans until relatively recently? China was seen favorably by most Americans until the last decade. An economic world power that we should strengthen relations with if polls are to be believed. For example: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/10/06/unfavorable-vi...

It was a very different country 10 years ago. It was comparable to the EU (I lived in both).

Even ten years ago, there were things like the Great Firewall and strict laws preventing any crowdsourced mapping on national security grounds (so OpenStreetMap never quite took off in China). Sure, things were a little freer, but China and the EU were definitely not comparable.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#205

Post by gedy »

f430 wrote: post #141
f00zz wrote: post #38

Article looks fishy. But if China goes down this route, it looks like fears of China economically overtaking the US are overblown.

> China economically overtaking the US are overblown. They never really stood a chance. Militarily, economically, socially, culturally and spiritually they offer no better alternative to the American one. Similar to how "China owns US treasuries and can crash the US dollar" was the common trope until recently, the US called them out the trillion dollar loan to Qing dynasty which was transferred from KMT to CCP after…

I used to think that way, but demographics seem to favor China growth for much more people for longer than US and Europe. Seems that will drive growth quite a bit.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#206

Post by brabel »

cambalache wrote: post #197
brabel wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to get things straight: everyone should praise the rise of Chinese people's living standards, which has been astonishing in the last 45 years or so, and has taken 850 million people out of poverty[0]! This is not something a reasonable person can argue against! The increase in human wellbeing in the whole planet has been almost entirely due to the Chinese in the last 50 years. That doest' mean we should prais…

Let me congratulate you on a more balanced comment on China than 99% of the users here. It is still a little bit naive or supremacist but dont let us the perfect being enemy of the good.

Ah.... thanks??! But supremacist, how??

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#207

Post by throw_m239339 »

aeternum wrote: post #127
notJim wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it better for Chinese billionaires to run the country than the CCP? Seems like just trading one master for another.

Billionaires can be held more accountable than government because they must continually compete for people's dollars. Movements like the Chick-Fil-A boycott and #deletefacebook do hurt companies and billionaires and can force a change in behavior quickly. There's no feedback loop like that with the CCP, and the US gives citizens more power but having to wait 4 years to vote on a change is a very slow feedback loop.

> Billionaires can be held more accountable than government because they must continually compete for people's dollars.

I don't know what to answer that except that it's the quickest way to get a fascist regime that doesn't even try to hide it's fascist. Monopolies don't need to compete with people's dollars.

> Movements like the Chick-Fil-A boycott and #deletefacebook do hurt companies

None of these movements really hurt these respective companies.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#208

Post by SllX »

potiuper wrote: post #151
f430 wrote: post #95

Guo Wengui said back in September 2019 that "Jack Ma would be jailed or killed" on Kyle Bass's youtube channel. [1] At this point its not even a question of whether we will see Jack Ma in public again. Overnight he went from billionaire to peasantry. We've seen dozen cases like this: 1) Billionaire disappears or is "killed" 2) Billionaire's company becomes nationalized 3) Rinse & Repeat Everybody who isn't familiar w…

The USA is not a democracy it is a federal republic. Anyone who disagrees needs to recite the US pledge of allegiance, and review the US constitution. China is also a republic. But, neither of the two dominant USA parties currently espouse the Marxist Leninist doctrine.

Every time I see this I think our school system has failed to adequately describe the difference between “democracy” and “republic”.

One is Greek for a concept. The other is Latin for the same concept. How this concept expressed itself in Greek and Roman society and law is complex and there were cultural differences, but what has happened between 1789 and 2021 is a whole lot of tea leaf reading into nothing.

We don’t have a King, nor Nobility, nor Serfs, nor Knights, and slavery has been abolished, so we’re a Republic. Or a Democracy, because we govern ourselves and this is the concept these words describe.

A serf or knight can always blame their Lord for their problems, and Lords can always blame a King, but we get no one but ourselves to blame for our problems because they are entirely of our own making. That’s self-government, that’s democracy, and that’s responsibility.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#209

Post by RockmanX »

f430 wrote: post #95

Guo Wengui said back in September 2019 that "Jack Ma would be jailed or killed" on Kyle Bass's youtube channel. [1] At this point its not even a question of whether we will see Jack Ma in public again. Overnight he went from billionaire to peasantry. We've seen dozen cases like this: 1) Billionaire disappears or is "killed" 2) Billionaire's company becomes nationalized 3) Rinse & Repeat Everybody who isn't familiar w…

Guo Wengui is rubbish. His words mean nothing!

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#210

Post by coredog64 »

vkou wrote: post #184
jonathannat wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The era of CCP economic rise is over. Middle income trap and aging demographics dictate as much. CCP will now have to contend with - internal turmoil - political infighting - encirclement by democracies (India, Japan, Australia, US, UK, Canada, France, South Korea, Taiwan). Once Merkel is out in sept 2021, Germany will be onboard - negative sentiment from most of population in the world due to covid - exploding debt/…

> If you have a foreign commercial presence in China, expect... In how many months do you expect your predictions will come true, in a way that will cause the majority of Fortune 500 firms to leave China? Three? Six? Sixty? Six hundred? I, for one, have strong doubts that the majority of those firms will ever leave China. I will also note that all of your criticisms can be applied even more-so to democracies. Interna…

Prior to this, seeing the writing on the wall, my previous (Fortune 100) employer was already on the way out. I think there will still be plenty of F500 companies that stay, but they will do a better job of fire walking their business from their operations in China and walking away from all but the highest returns.
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